Question: Presuppositional apologetics and an Eternal Logic without God?

Someone asked:

If in conversation I am asking an agnostic evolutionist who keeps changing his position to account for logic and he responds it isn’t from himself or from the universe it is just eternal. It has always been in existence but not from Yahweh. That is tricky for me and I am not sure how to do an internal critique with such a view of logic. Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

My response:

Note: I would encourage one to use questions in any apologetics dialogue in order to challenge the person to think and gently lead them to see the problem.

1.) “it isn’t…from the universe ”

Response: I take it by that we mean that the source of the laws of logic did not originate from the universe per se; my question would be “I agree and believe also the origin of logic is not from the universe (collection of all things and beings) in of itself, but without God behind the universe and logic, how did the universe ever become logical in it’s characteristics?  Help explain how you can resolve that difficulty without God to me, or maybe we need to back up and have you give a better explanation of your understanding of the nature of logic and the universe?” (What I’m pursuing is to see his relationship of logic to the world, whether one is dependent upon another and also how logic can be embedded in the universe or the two have any corresponding relationship in a chance driven, non-purpose atheistic universe.  My second question is to explore the individual’s understanding of the nature of logic and the nature of the universe so that one can spell out the difficulty of accounting for the laws of logic operating in the universe.)

2.) “it is just eternal. It has always been in existence but not from Yahweh.”

Response: Remember that our friend here is still autonomous (man-centered) if he is going to deny God.  I would ask him, “How do you know that logic is eternal?”  As a finite being with finite knowledge and finite means of attaining that knowledge, he has no basis to make his claim about something that is infinite by nature (eternity).

3.) “it isn’t…from the universe ”

Response: The same problem of a finite person with finite means of attaining knowledge making a universal claim also applies to the claim that the laws of logic is not from the universe.  While I agree that the universe itself did not give us knowledge, as an internal critique of this individual’s worldview, there is no basis for such a person to make a universal claim that the universe did not give us logic since a finite person does not have *UNIVERSAL experience to know that.