We have a troll commented on one of my posts while I was away on a trip. He has some interesting unorthodox views. Wally, a dear friend of our blog asked him the question “Exactly how did you arrive at that?” The troll said said “about 25 years in theology.” He thinks his study of the Bible is academically rigorous and told Wally “what i’d like you to do is use the greek, the original language john was written in,” to refute him. He wants Wally to know he’s ready to rumble with the Greek by name dropping Strong (dead give away of a wannable Greek Geek). Oh and our troll freely use the word “simpleton” for others. So after 25 years of studying theology what is his mighty conclusion of Jesus’ life and ministry ? His comment found HERE is very telling:
jesus didn’t have any requirements about belief in himself; he had a very old jewish message he wished was simply believed. his only unique addition to it was a universalism and focus on the inner-man. a way of seeing the world differently, through love, and behavior is then lawless, unjudgable.
Let’s do an autopsy of what he said.
1.) “jesus didn’t have any requirements about belief in himself”
Response: Jesus didn’t have any requirements about belief in himself? The Biblical data suggests otherwise. And he didn’t pick this up after 25 years? Maybe it’s time to turn the table around, so using his own words and standards: “what i’d like you to do is use the Greek, the original language,” and translate these Greek passages:
και πας ο ζων και πιστευων εις εμε ου μη αποθανη εις τον αιωνα πιστευεις τουτο
μη ταρασσεσθω υμων η καρδια πιστευετε εις τον θεον και εις εμε πιστευετε
ιησους δε εκραξεν και ειπεν ο πιστευων εις εμε ου πιστευει εις εμε αλλα εις τον πεμψαντα με
I’m not playing. If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek. And please don’t use Google to find these verses and look it up in the English or cheat with Google Translate. You can tell.
Note: I’ll post what these verse says in the English after a reasonably ample time has passed.
2.) “he had a very old jewish message he wished was simply believed. his only unique addition to it was a universalism and focus on the inner-man. a way of seeing the world differently, through love, and behavior is then lawless, unjudgable.”
Response: It’s important to understand this quote in context. Our troll argues throughout the comment section for a Jesus that delivers a nonjudgmental message. But this is unbiblical. Notice Jesus’ own teachings that the inter-relationship of rejecting Jesus and God’s judgment meets with Jesus’ own words being the standard to condemn the guilty:
ο αθετων εμε και μη λαμβανων τα ρηματα μου εχει τον κρινοντα αυτον ο λογος ον ελαλησα εκεινος κρινει αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα
I like the troll to translate, parse and decline the verse.
Here’s a freebee in the English that shows Jesus’ own message to His followers was never about not judging; rather it was about judging correctly:
Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” (John 7:24)
And another freebee in the English:
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,” (John 5:22)
Note how John 5:22 makes it clear that Jesus as the Son of God has been given the authority by the Father to judge! This is confirmed by John 5:27. Jesus will practice this authority! He has said:
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.” (John 5:30)
The Bible does not teach that love means believers are to practice lawless behavior. The essence of sin is lawlessness:
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.” (1 John 3:4)
2 Peter 3:17 even warns us against lawlessness:
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
Our troll teaches doctrines that thinks love never warns and promotion of lawlessness that would threaten someone’s secure position in Christ. Our troll teaches doctrines of demons. I pray He repents to Jesus.
I didn’t think trolls bothered you much Jim.
Wally and I have a troll who has most recently appeared on the post I wrote about TV here. https://thei535project.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/5-things-i-wont-be-watching-on-tv-tonight/
This guy claims to be a Christian and minister with more than 20 years experience and is more frustrating than almost any atheist. Not sure if I deal with him in a Christian manner at all. I try but he frustrates me to no end.
James
When they talk about how much experience they have…watch out!
I saw this is a red flag too. Sadly it’s usually followed up with “in 20-25 years you’ll be mature enough to see it my way.”
Have to give Wally some credit for toughing that one out I guess. I honestly didn’t understand half of what Steven even wrote, seemed like jiberish to me.
I agree, Wally did a good job.
Well he does get a good deal of practice.
He takes his faith seriously and is not affraid of defending truth.
Thank you Jim. Please understand how much the mentoring, example, and encouragement of more experienced believers means. And yes, experience is a good thing! Just as long as a person is not using it to prove how much better they are than another. Just sayin LOL. As James pointed out, we have our own personal troll who constantly beats others over the head with his vast experience.
Amen! Experience is a good thing but I’m weary of those arrogantly appeal to their “25 years experience” and expect others to expertly interact with the Greek who themselves commit word study fallacies of a first year Seminary student.
Well…fear not! You won’t see me doing any Greek word studies anytime soon! I have a couple of Word study books that are quite useful, but that’s way out of my pay grade. It is bothersome to see people pretending to be Greek scholars when they are not, though.
I’m not against people doing word study! I just think it’s erroneous of anyone importing foreign categories into how a word is used; and just because one cites there’s a semantic range for one’s view our troll still need to PROVE that this is how the word is being used according to the context.
I am eagerly awaiting his explanation to tell the truth, because I’m pretty sure Jesus meant exactly what He said when He said..I am the way, the truth and the life. Doesn’t seem to be a lot of wiggle room to me.
Great point Wally. In the 15 years I have been a Christian, the smartest and most mature Christians I personally know and the ones whose biblical interpretation and wisdom I trust and value most are, without fail, also the most humble people I know.
Knowledge or understanding probably would have been better than interpretation in my last comment.
Maybe, but I understood what you mean James. Gotta be careful, or the word police will take you away!
I remember well to this day not too long after I became saved that I went to my pastor with a fairly deep question. He is the first to admit he is not a premier Bible scholar, at least in terms of really deep theology. Rather than just blowing smoke, he just admitted that there were probably other sources that could help me out. Then he pointed me to those other sources and said get back with me when you have it down, and maybe we will both get it. That actually was a life changing moment to tell the truth.
What a good example
Well, it had to do with the Bride of Christ issue, and I’ve been working on that for 8 years and still am. Specifically the issue came up because there are some what I know now, are Baptist Briders around, and I was struggling with the issue. But he was very honest about his answer and I have never forgotten.
On the other hand, few men I have seen are more truly patoral than he is in terms of caring for his flock and loving his people. He’s a good man.
A lot of pastors care more about leading rather than feeding people, about missions, about counseling, about community outreach/service…and that’s OK.
We all have gifts Wally, not all of us, even pastors have the gift of or the knack for deep theological thinking.
A person would have to be a pastor a very long time to be able to quickly and biblically answer every possible question anyone could ever ask, in person.
I would have a lot more respect for someone who said they didn’t know than for someone who shot from the hip and gave a wrong answer just to look smart. As you have said, wrong answers can be very dangerous.
“I would have a lot more respect for someone who said they didn’t know than for someone who shot from the hip and gave a wrong answer just to look smart. As you have said, wrong answers can be very dangerous.”
I think often when people feel they have to answer even when they don’t know, its often pride that drives them. At our church I would often tell people I’m not the brightest guy in the room. If I don’t know something, I don’t know. These guys are great at iron sharpening iron! But in all things let us be biblical in our discussion.
Well said, Jim. I needed to retrain myself when I read the comment Jesus had no requirements about believing in himself. 🙂
Did you mean restrained? =)
Thanks for hopping in with Wally with the Tango earlier by the way.
Awesome post Jim, where were you when that guy was chasing me around? LOL. I thank God every day for believer who are real theologians, as folks like that are just your cup of tea.
But this guys does illustrate a point, God did not inspire His Word to just be understood by theologians. He inspired it to be understood by the most simple among us. A child who can read See Spot Run, can read the Bible and be saved. I certainly don’t oppose Bible Study, in fact I love it. But guys like the over complicate themselves right out of salvation, I think. He was looking for answers, and he studied until he found the answers he wanted. It’s very sad, and very dangerous.
You did fine Wally, that was a difficult troll.
Thanks James I appreciate that
Brother Wally,
“But this guys does illustrate a point, God did not inspire His Word to just be understood by theologians. He inspired it to be understood by the most simple among us.”
AND
“But guys like the over complicate themselves right out of salvation, I think. ”
To this I say Amen! As I was reading this, I thought about 1 Corinthians 1:20-22 which says “20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the [o]message preached to save those who believe.”
Good verse brother, thanks.
Over complicate themselves right out of salvation is a great line Wally.
I have never claimed to be a biblical scholar but the Bible is pretty easy to understand. I have been reading it with my 9 year old and, while he does have questions, he generally gets it.
I have found that people who reason themselves out of faith only do so because they need reasons to not have faith. Reasons, the “reasonable” think, absolve them of guilt and responsibility.
James
Gotta love your ‘autopsy.’
Thanks!
If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek.
The troll does not understand the Bible. He has issues with Christ’s teaching. He does not want to submit to His authority.
Hence his invention of a Jesus in his own making, one that is totally nonjudgmental…
People who think like the troll do not care for the souls of the lost that are under God’s impending judgment. Hence, they are soul murderers.
Thank you all, for interacting and helping us out concerning the troll. SLIMJIM and I both have hectic schedules.
EvangelZ
I recall something about “a threefold cord is not easily broken.” Solidarity and watching out for each other is vital. Thank you and Jim for allowing this to happen.
And blessings to the work you are doing regarding abortion Brother; that is a great and awesome work. Maybe some day this horrible crime of murder will be stopped.
Thank you for being the third person in this threefold cord brother Wally.
Thanks EvangelZ for saying this on behalf of our blog.
[…] weeks ago I responded to a troll in a post titled “Troll on Veritas Domain: Jesus didn’t have any requirements about belief in Himself?” Here in this post I want to tackle another point with the troll’s comment here. […]