Two weeks ago I responded to a troll in a post titled “Troll on Veritas Domain: Jesus didn’t have any requirements about belief in Himself?” Here in this post I want to tackle another point with the troll’s comment here. I’ve already responded to the first half of his comment over there but I thought I take on the second half as a blog post in hopes that the following response would illustrate the importance of contextually driven interpretation in refuting an erroneous interpretation.
The troll have an interesting take on the fall of Adam and Eve in Genesis 3. In his own words:
in fact, in the garden, why was god pissed? what was he angry with? what was his first comment?
he was angry at adam and eve believing (because now they judged) they were not worthy to be in god’s presence! his only following comment was deducing why they now thought their metaphoric nakedness (ie insufficiency) … “ah! you ate from the tree, eh?”
Nothing speaks more of the height of folly of the ungodly gospel of self-esteem than to see this troll reinterpret the reason why God was upset in Genesis 3. He thinks God was upset with Adam and Eve for thinking they were not worthy of being before His presence! Our troll rejects the traditional interpretation that the reason why God was upset with Adam and Eve is due to their disobedience in eating the prohibited fruit.
But is our troll’s interpretation defensible from the text of Genesis 3 itself? Let’s take a closer look.
- Our troll’s interpretation is obviously problematic: Nowhere does God in Genesis 3 ever say that He’s upset with Adam and Eve for thinking “they were not worthy to be in god’s presence.”
- The troll seem to believe that one can arrive at his conclusion that God was angry at “Adam and eve believing they were not worthy to be in god’s presence” from God’s comment “ah! you ate from the tree, eh?” But that does not logically follow.
- It is not true as our troll claimed that God’s “only following comment was deducing why they now thought their metaphoric nakedness.” It’s as if the troll God stopped reading at Genesis 3:11. But Genesis 3:12 and following reveal God has a lot more to say.
- As a contrast with the troll’s interpretation note how God in Genesis 3 clearly states the reason for God’s wrath is because Adam and Eve ate the fruit.
- Genesis 3:14-16 pronounces God’s punishment against the Serpent. Verse 14 contains a causal clause: “Because you have done this,” with “this” referring back to verse 13 of how the serpent deceived Eve and she ate the fruit.
- Genesis 3:17-19 pronounces God’s punishment against the Man. Verse 17 contains the causal clause indicating why God was cursing Adam: “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it.’”
- In Genesis 3:22 the Persons within the Godhead was speaking to one another and expressing concerns that Adam and Eve would “take also from the tree of life, and eat,” with the “also” suggesting that the original eating of the first prohibited fruit was God’s concern. God’s concern led to them being kicked out of the Garden of Eden.
- After they disobediently ate of the fruit Adam and Eve’s behavior of hiding from God does suggest that they thought “they were not worthy to be in god’s presence.” Rather than disagree with Adam and Eve, everything in God’s response in Genesis 3 indicates God agrees with Adam and Eve!
- God’s curses upon Adam and Eve in the latter half of Genesis focuses more on Adam and Eve being worthy of God’s judgment rather than them being worthy to be before God’s presence.
- If the problem that made God angry was Adam and Eve’s lack of self-esteem to be before His presence, God’s curses upon Adam and Eve certainly wasn’t going to help them think they were worthy. We all know how getting chewed out is on self-esteem and the feeling of worthiness.
- Originally in the garden of Eden Adam and Eve can enjoy God’s presence: “They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the [c]cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden” (v.8). After the fall Adam and Eve was driven out by God Himself from the Garden of Eden which shows how they are worthy of being banished from God’s presence and not as our troll has claimed that they are “worthy to be in god’s presence.”
- Note Genesis 3:24 which mentioned “at the east of the garden of Eden” was where “the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.” The next chapter in Genesis 4:16 likewise mentioned “east of Eden” concerning Cain departing from the presence of the Lord. This pattern of ” Sin–> departing from the presence of the Lord–> East of Eden” at the end of both periscope reinforces the point that sin makes one not worthy of God’s presence.
You know what amazes me? We are unworthy, but God still saved sinners from the Wrath of God against our sins. He did this and we can experience it through faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior..
Nice response Brother. I don’t think that fellow is coming back, though. He was a drive by troll apparently.
Thanks Wally! If he does, he still needs to live up the criteria of him parsing, declining and translating the Greek verses in my previous post as an exercise of his self-profess scholarly might with Biblical Greek. Again thank you for your interaction with this whole situation!
Oh, my pleasure. You know, we gotta look out for each other on here, just like in real life. You have a blessed day Jim!
Thanks for taking the time to clarify this section of scripture for us SJ. It amazes me how taking a bit of time to study out issues like this completely clarifies what is really taking place in the text. Lord bless!
You’re welcome Rob. I think it is important to be driven by context in one’s interpretation and I’m sure you agree.
“Self-esteem” is a term so over-used that it has lost its meaning. I like the old fashioned term, self-respect. The only way to have self-respect is by doing what is right. Therefore, sin is a sure way to damage one’s self-esteem and repentance is the only way to retrieve one’s self-respect.
Wow good point about the term self-respect in contrast to the term self-esteem. Sin will damage one’s view of one’s worthiness and while I see the main problem with sin is an offense towards God, through Jesus Christ there is forgiveness of sins and the implication of that is the removal of a guilty conscience that no longer condemns oneself. There is a freedom of being free from the self-esteem vicious cycle of being caught up about one’s self.
Pam, how elegantly put. Yes! Thank you.
Alec
I agree!
What’s interesting about Genesis 3 and the fall is God’s cursing of the ground and the serpent (a spiritual being). I can’t find any reading where God cursed Adam and Eve. I read (understand) Gen. 3:17 as God saying to them I’m sparing you from the curse upon the ground and the serpent (in effect all spiritual beings apposed to God). A judgment is still necessary, for disobeying my command.
Wow good observation about the recipients of the curse. I do see what you are saying. I do believe that God “curse the ground on account of man” which interestingly enough is echoed in another situation in Genesis 8:21. It seems the fact that God spared them direct curse to Adam and Eve opened the door to God’s grace and mercy, which is already hinted at with God clothing their nakedness, that they did not instantly die after eating the fruit and also the incipient hope for the Messiah in Genesis 3:15. So much is going on in Genesis 3!
It also gives the statement Holy Ground background info….in terms of “undoing” the curse. Makes me think of “the sin of the world” meaning ground…
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Thanks for reblogging this post!
You’re very welcome Pastor Jim!
If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek.
If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek.
If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek.
If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek.
If you’re the troll and you are reading this, there will be no comments approved on this blog until you you translate, parse, decline and argue grammatically from the Greek.Name calling has got you blocked.
If you make light of Bible’s view of sin you are undermining the Lord. Sin is a huge problem we have, without Christ we end up in hell because of our sin and not because of our lack of self-esteem! Thanks for this post SlimJim!
Thank you for your comment Nina. This is why an incorrect and fallacious interpretation of the fall is problematic, it will state what’s the problem wrongly and therefore one would not see Christ.
Wow your friend showed up
Yeah. He’s blocked. Don’t tolerate cussing.
Ah not good
Good job, Jim.
Thank you Dan.
Good work, Jim.
Thank you Alf Cengia.
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Thanks for sharing this post! God bless you!