We at The Domain for Truth would like to express our sincerest gratitude to you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to do an interview with us. It was not too long ago that SLIMJIM and myself fellowshipped briefly together at the Shepherds’ Conference with Pastor Costi. Lord willing we will meet you one day Pastor Anthony.
For those of you who may not know, Pastor Costi and Anthony’s ministry does not comprise mainly on the WOF and NAR movements. Both men spend a considerable amount of their lives devoted to expository preaching and shepherding a local church. To find out more about their church you can visit: https://missionbible.org/
If the Lord leads, I encourage you to surf their site and pray for them. They are one of the many good ministries out there that are aggressively and actively trying to reach folks enslaved to the WOF and NAR movement with the Gospel of grace.
Well, let us begin.
1) In essence, what is the WOF and NAR Movement? How vast of a presence do they have in the world?
The abbreviations stand for “Word of Faith” and “New Apostolic Reformation.” The WOF and NAR movements are similar in some ways and very distinct in others. They are similar in that many of the NAR leaders employ WOF theology in their teaching. A very basic summary of WOF theology is that you can use the power of “confession” to control your reality. In other words, just like you can confess your sins and confess Christ as Lord (Romans 10:9; 1 John 1:9), you can also use the power of confession to confess a job promotion, perfect health, or a Bentley. Ultimately, WOF theology teaches that you are in control. This is where the NAR employs it. The NAR is a movement that teaches the office of “Apostle” is back and bigger than ever. They teach that modern day apostles are going to be running the modern day church. They teach that modern day apostles are “taking dominion” (much like WOF) over the earth and able to restore peace and prosperity through their authority and special gifts. The NAR believes that its adherents should be receiving direct revelation from God, performing miracles like raising the dead and growing people’s limbs, and doing these things and more on a daily basis at will. Even though it is clear in Scripture that the Holy Spirit is the only one who gives people the gifts “of the Spirit,” the NAR charges tuition and promises to teach people how to do signs and wonders. They also offer people the chance to pay money to become an “apostle.” These movements have a vast influence across the globe because people are desperate for the two things they falsely promise: peace and prosperity. Only Jesus can fulfill the deepest needs of the human heart. They trample on His Gospel.
2) Is there any particular leaders from these two camps that are most concerning to you? I ask this because usually false teachers are charismatic and are good with mixing some unsound views with sound views. J.C. Ryle once said, “Beware of supposing that a teacher of religion is to be trusted, because although he holds some unsound views, he yet ‘teaches a great deal of truth.’ Such a teacher is precisely the man to do you harm: poison is always most dangerous when it is given in small doses and mixed with wholesome food.”
Bill Johnson, Lou Engle, Todd White, Kris Valloton, Che Ahn, Heidi Baker, Kenneth Copeland, Michael Koulianos, Daniel Kolenda, Rick Joyner, Cindy Jacobs, and numerous others are the headliners. The music that the NAR has developed is topping #1 charts in Christian music as well. Bethel Music and Jesus Culture were both “birthed” out of Bethel Church and mentored by Bill Johnson. Hillsong is right in the same theological mix as these teachers and has historical roots in Word of Faith theology. The fact that this movement has infiltrated the most mainstream avenues of Christianity should be deeply concerning to any Christian who cares about the Gospel.
3) Do both these camps distort the Gospel? If so, how? It is a legalistic message? Do they deny penal substitution or any core doctrines of Christianity?
The best way to sum it up is by using Bill Johnson’s own words. On page 29 of his book, When Heaven Invades Earth, he writes, ““He (Jesus) performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God . . .not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us.” Further on in his book (pages 87-88) he writes that, “He [Jesus] laid His divinity aside (see Phil 2:5–7) as He sought to fulfill the assignment given to Him by the Father.” This is outright heresy and is rooted in Kenotic Theory. No biblical theologian would ever sign off on these as orthodox, Christian beliefs. This flies in the face of what the Bible teaches about Jesus and His divinity. That being said, the NAR has to teach this or else they could not promote their supernatural schools or make money on people who believe they can become apostles. This belief system also lays the perfect foundation for their false claims that they are raising the dead, doing daily miracles, and living exactly as Jesus did.
4) What primary sources can believers go to in order to inspect their beliefs? For orthodox believers we have confessions and statement of faiths. Do they have something liken to that?
That’s precisely the problem. There beliefs are listed in ways that align with some historical orthodox beliefs so it can be difficult to spot. They do their damage through their books and sermons. Even orthodox creeds and confessions get used because the NAR will say they believe on those confessions too. For example, www.icaleaders.com is a site where people can become members of the International Coalition of Apostolic Leaders. On their “beliefs” page, they affirm Nicene Creed, Apostles Creed, and Lausanne Covenant. While this is an example of NAR material, there is no one statement and website that governs all of their beliefs and activities. There are numerous subgroups that have nuanced differences. It’s a perfect example of 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 in that they claim to be truth speakers but they are deceivers. Paul writes, “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.”
5) Do you recommend any books or resources that can help people defend the faith from these dangerous movements?
We wrote a book called, Defining Deception, in an effort to coalesce material and save people time. We read well over a dozen books (nearly half of those were by Bill Johnson and Kris Valloton from Bethel). We listened to countless hours of heretical sermons. We spoke with numerous followers of the NAR and some of their “up and comers” who told us we were “touching the Lord’s anointed” by writing the book. Defining Deception was written for the average Christian who does not have a master’s in theology but wants to grow and be challenged in theological discernment. Other books would most certainly include: A New Apostolic Reformation by R. Douglas Geivett and Holly Pivec and Strange Fire by John MacArthur.
6) What is the goal of the NAR Movement? How can the church best prepare for them?
To usher in the kingdom of God by using their “apostolic authority” to heal, restore, and bring peace and prosperity on the earth. They see themselves infiltrating the highest places of society – including government. The church can best prepare by admitting there is an issue, then getting educated on the issue, and studying the Scriptures in order to know the truth.
7) Do they need to be evangelized?
Yes. We should always evangelize lost people. God is control of awakening their dead hearts, but we are in control of obeying! You never know who God will save through your evangelistic efforts.
8) Is it wrong for influential Christian leaders to be associating with them in conferences/events (e.g. IHOP, 110th anniversary of Pentecostal Azuza revival) together?
In short, it’s not ok. No matter what the intention of influential Christian leaders, it confuses people who are weaker in their understanding and faith. Unless an influential leader is going to speak at a conference and call out sin and call the conference to repentance, it’s not a good idea to be mixing in with false teachers. We provided some in depth answers to this question in Defining Deception. The chapter is called, “The Shady World of Stage Sharing.”
9) Pastor Costi, recently your uncle: Benny Hinn, broadcasted from FB live (https://www.facebook.com/BennyHinnMinistries/videos/10156198529666450/). Apparently he apologizes for teaching the prosperity message. What are your thoughts on that?
Remorse isn’t repentance. The Scriptures are clear on that. Judas was remorseful when the implications of his horrendous betrayal hit him. Zacchaeus was repentant when he became aware of his sin. He went back and tried to make things right – paying back people and doing what he could to own up to his deception and exploitation of people. I hope my uncle will do the latter and blow us all away at how God can change anyone.
10) Why are you men passionate about rescuing people from these movements?
Because it’s what Christians do and what pastors are commanded to do! 2 Timothy 4:1-5. We actually believe what we are preaching and that impacts the way we live. There is no other purpose – or greater purpose – than living for the glory of Christ. This includes contending for the faith (Jude 3). Right now, the church must stand up for the truth like it always has when wolves seek to slaughter the sheep.
Well, this is the wrap-up of this very important meeting with these dear brothers. We thank you, Pastor Anthony and Costi for standing up for the truth in a day where compromise seems to be the norm. May we pray for more godly saints to rise up and proclaim the Gospel in a dark and confusing world. Sola scriptura!
Reblogged this on Truth2Freedom's Blog.
Thank you for clearly laying out the deception of the NAR and related movements. It’s good to review it and get a fresh determination. I keep bumping into IHOP people that are well meaning. In fact I was just at a home group two weeks ago where a guy was a guest from Kansas City. I’m not sure the underlings know how off their theology is, they are just caught up in wanting the emotion of the Spirit. The people I know have a hard time being committed to the Church and aren’t very well grounded in the Word, or in good hermeneutics. That’s too boring or mundane. I’ve been to one of Cindy Jacob’s rallies and seen first hand their declaring of things that are just hype. May God grant His children discernment.
Very helpful, and instructive, interview here! Thank you both!
He’s so different than his uncle…
What about those great many passages of Scripture that make it abundantly clear that “godly people” are still subject to “troubles and hardships and calamities of every kind” (2 Corinthians 6:3-10 NLT; Exodus 18:8; 2 Chronicles 20:9; Ruth 1:21; 1 Samuel 2:7; Job 1:21; 2:10; 5:19; Psalm 44:22; 57:1; 71:20; Proverbs 21:23; 24:16; Ecclesiastes 2:24; Isaiah 45:7; Jeremiah 32:42; Lamentations 3:4-5,38; Matthew 5:12; Mark 14:33; John 11:33; 12:27; 13:21; 15:18-21; 16:33; Acts 7:9-10; 9:16; 14:22; 16:23; 17:5; 20:23; Romans 5:3; 8:35-36; 1 Corinthians 4:9; 7:28; 13:3; 15:30-32; 2 Corinthians 1:4,8-10; 4:11,17; 7:4; 11:23-28; 12:10; Philippians 4:14; 1 Thessalonians 2:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-7; 1 Timothy 5:10; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 12:7; James 5:13; Revelation 2:3) These “troubles, hardships and distresses” (2 Corinthians 6:4 NIV) occur in godly Christians even with the facts that we have “the Holy Spirit within us” (2 Corinthians 6:6 NLT) and “God’s power is working in us” (2 Corinthians 6:7 NLT).
John 16:33 New International Version (NIV)
33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
John 16:33 New Living Translation (NLT)
33 “I have told you all this so that you may have peace in me. Here on earth you will have many trials and sorrows. But take heart, because I have overcome the world.”
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
This ‘theology’ of the “Word of Faith” movement with the ‘ideology’ of the “Name It and Simply Claim It” teaching, is totally repudiated by the Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 [Paul’s Thorn in the Flesh]. The Apostle Paul “was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud” (verse 7). “Three different times”, the Apostle Paul “begged the Lord to take it away” (verse 8), and three times the Lord’s answer was ‘no’ : “Each time he said, “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness” (verse 9). And then verses 9 & 10 give Paul’s extremely apt summation of the situation of his ‘having faith but without healing’, resulting in “weaknesses” and “hardships” and “troubles” : “So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me. 10 That’s why I take pleasure in my weaknesses, and in the insults, hardships, persecutions, and troubles that I suffer for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”
Concerning this article’s point of the leaders of this movement attempting to “purchase the gift of God with money”, here is the actual witness of “the Holy Scriptures” : Acts 8:17-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
17 Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given when the apostles laid their hands on people, he offered them money to buy this power. 19 “Let me have this power, too,” he exclaimed, “so that when I lay my hands on people, they will receive the Holy Spirit!”
20 But Peter replied, “May your money be destroyed with you for thinking God’s gift can be bought! 21 You can have no part in this, for your heart is not right with God. 22 Repent of your wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive your evil thoughts, 23 for I can see that you are full of bitter jealousy and are held captive by sin.”
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
Concerning this article’s point of the succession of “apostolic ministry”, Acts 1:21-26 contains the actual witness of “the Holy Scriptures” on the proper qualifications and procedure for installing such a person. Note carefully, that under these strict qualifications, it is NO longer possible for any human being to hold the office of an “apostle” (the “apostolic ministry” having ended with the death of the last qualified “apostle” being John, by the year 100 A.D.).
Acts 1:21-26 New International Version (NIV)
21 “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”
23 So they nominated two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.”
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
Of course, the actual witness of “the Holy Scriptures” concerning the Christian “confessing” their sins, is NOT meant to focus on any possible ‘physical benefits’ reaped by doing such, but on the ‘spiritual benefits’ that will be reaped :
1 John 1:3-10 New International Version (NIV)
3 “We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.
Light and Darkness, Sin and Forgiveness
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[b] sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.”
Footnotes:
a. 1 John 1:4 Some manuscripts “your”
b. 1 John 1:7 Or “every”
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.
Concerning the “different kinds of spiritual gifts” (1 Corinthians 12:4 NLT), the actual witness of “the Holy Scriptures” makes it abundantly clear that it is “the Holy Spirit” who is their “source” (1 Corinthians 12:4-10 NLT), and the One who is solely responsible for “distributing them to each one, just as he determines” (1 Corinthians 12:4, 11; Hebrews 2:4).
1 Corinthians 12:11 New Living Translation (NLT)
11 “It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.”
Hebrews 2:4 New Living Translation (NLT)
4 “And God confirmed the message by giving signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit whenever he chose.”
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
Of course, the actual teaching of ‘orthodox’ or ‘fundamentalist Christianity’ concerning the “emptying” [Koine Greek “κενόω (kenoō)”] of Jesus Christ in His Incarnation (Philippians 2:5-8), is NOT that He “laid aside His divinity”, but that He “laid aside His privileges” or “prerogatives” of divinity.
Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament
κενόω (kenoō)
Strong: G2758
GK: G3033
to empty, evacuate; ἑαυτόν, to divest one’s self of one’s prerogatives, abase one’s self, Phil. 2:7
Philippians 2:5-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 “Have this attitude [a]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [b]grasped, 7 but [c]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [d]on a cross.”
Footnotes:
a. Philippians 2:5 Or “among”
b. Philippians 2:6 I.e. utilized or asserted
c. Philippians 2:7 I.e. laid aside His privileges
d. Philippians 2:8 Lit “of”
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
Philippians 2:7 New Living Translation (NLT)
7 “Instead, he gave up his divine privileges[a];
he took the humble position of a slave[b]
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,”[c]
Footnotes:
a. 2:7a Greek “he emptied himself”.
b. 2:7b Or “the form of a slave”.
c. 2:7c Some English translations put this phrase in verse 8.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
Philippians 2:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 “but [a]made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.”
Footnotes:
a. Philippians 2:7 “emptied Himself” of His privileges
New King James Version (NKJV)
Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson. Used by permission. All rights reserved.
Philippians 2:7 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
7 “But stripped Himself [of all privileges and [a]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.”
Footnotes:
a. Philippians 2:7 George R. Berry, Greek-English New Testament Lexicon.
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
Philippians 2:7 Amplified Bible (AMP)
7 “but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].”
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 2015 by The Lockman Foundation, La Habra, CA 90631. All rights reserved.
Here is the words of the actual passage of Scripture that Costi Hinn referenced in this article :
2 Timothy 4:1-5 New Living Translation (NLT)
1 “I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he comes to set up his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.
3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will reject the truth and chase after myths.
5 But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don’t be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at telling others the Good News, and fully carry out the ministry God has given you.”
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
Here are the actual words of Jude 3, as referenced in this article by Costi Hinn :
Jude 3 New Living Translation (NLT)
The Danger of False Teachers
3 “Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people.”
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
Concerning this particular statement of Costi Hinn : “There is no other purpose – or greater purpose – than living for the glory of Christ.” In the actual witness of “the Holy Scriptures”, concerning the church’s purpose and power in “living for the glory of Christ”, and employing “evangelism”, as well as for maintaining the “defense” of the Christian faith, it is “Christ’s mighty power that works within me” that is utilized to accomplish these all important tasks.
1 Peter 3:15-16 New Living Translation (NLT)
15 “Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your hope as a believer, always be ready to explain it. 16 But do this in a gentle and respectful way.[a] Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ.”
Footnotes:
3:16 Some English translations put this sentence in verse 15.
Colossians 1:28-29 New Living Translation (NLT)
28 “So we tell others about Christ, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all the wisdom God has given us. We want to present them to God, perfect[a] in their relationship to Christ. 29 That’s why I work and struggle so hard, depending on Christ’s mighty power that works within me.”
Footnotes:
a. 1:28 Or “mature”.
Philippians 2:14-16 New Living Translation (NLT)
14 “Do everything without complaining and arguing, 15 so that no one can criticize you. Live clean, innocent lives as children of God, shining like bright lights in a world full of crooked and perverse people. 16 Hold firmly to the word of life; then, on the day of Christ’s return, I will be proud that I did not run the race in vain and that my work was not useless.”
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.
I saw Costi at this year’s Shepherd’s Conference!
I love Costi Hinn for the truth he speaks. There’s not a lot of solid preachers in America’s evangelicalism today especially national platform speakers.
Grateful for Costi, he’s so different than Benny!
Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
😮💨😍