A recent troll said to me:
Jesus himself said he wasn’t God! Mark 10:18 & Luke 18:19
Both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 parallel each other.
This is what Mark 10:18 states:
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
This is what Luke 18:19 states:
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
This is how she would argue it:
Jesus denies he’s good: “no one is”
Only God is good
Ergo Jesus isn’t God
Does this show Jesus is not God? I don’t think so. Let me explain.
- First it is important that we get our definition of the Trinity right. Why? Because those who are refuting the Trinity need to get the definition right or else they risk the high probability of not refuting the actual doctrine of the Trinity in their arguments but instead commit a straw-man fallacy.
- What is the doctrine of the Trinity? The doctrine of the Trinity is the doctrine that “within the One Being that is God there exists eternally three co-equal and co-eternal Persons, namely the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.“
- Equally important is defining the doctrine of Incarnation. The Incarnation is when the Second Person of the Trinity, the Son, became fully a man while still being fully God. Thus, in Jesus He is both God and man; He has both a divine nature and a human nature.
- Secondly her own syllogism can be better stated. Here I am helping her out.
- Premise 0: Only God is Good.
- Premise 1: If someone is good, He is God.
- Premise 2: Jesus denies he’s good.
- Conclusion: Jesus is not God.
- The argument she give is logically valid; that is, if the premises are true then the conclusion necessarily follow. Some might notice premise 1 and 2 is structurally a “denying the antecedent” form of argumentation which usually is invalid but premise 0 is trying to capture that she gave an “If and only if” argumentation which then is valid. So the next question is whether or not Jesus and the Bible teach each premise.
- Both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 affirm premise 0 and premise 1 since Jesus in the second half of both verses states “No one is good except God alone.” Using that standard of good in the immediate context which suggest perfection, only God can be good.
- However premise 2 stating ” Jesus denies he’s good” is not something from both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 despite the person stating that is what both verse teaches.
- Let’s back up first with the context. In the context Jesus is asking the rich man a question about his understanding of goodness when the man called Jesus “good teacher.”
- When Jesus asked the question “Why do you call Me good?” that question is not a denial of Him being good.
- Semantically a question is not the same thing as a statement of negation.
- This is not the only time Jesus asked the question “Why do you call Me….” Yet it is not interpreted elsewhere as a denial of the claim in question. For instance no one would deny Jesus is Lord. Yet in Luke 6:46 Jesus said “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” Syntactically the structure of both is the same with Luke 6:46 and Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. He’s asking a question and not doubting nor denying He is Lord.
- Jesus supplied additional proposition in the second half of the verse in both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. In doing so Jesus is still not denying He is God.
- What Jesus is doing is asking the rich man a question about his understanding of goodness and drawing out the implication of what it means Jesus is good.
- Again this parallel Luke 6:46 when Jesus said “Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” Syntactically the structure of both is similar with Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19. In both instances Jesus is starting with His audience’s true claim about Himself and drawing out the implication of the ramification of what it means with their claims about Him.
- Given that’s the case both Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 is not a denial of Jesus being God but might even be an argument for Jesus’ divinity. Ironically the person who object to Jesus as being God is like the rich man, not willing to see its implication of what it means that Jesus is good (and good in the understanding of the immediate context). Note later when she was pressed she was not willing to deny Jesus is good which is also strange that she then thinks this is denying Jesus is God from these two verses.
- One might argue “No one” is a denial of Jesus Himself not being good and therefore Jesus is not God. Again to make this argument one has to say Jesus is not good something even our troll is not willing to affirm. But grammatically the Greek word translated as “No one” can also function as “No one else” with the exception of also the person speaking which here is Jesus Himself. For instance it is clear Jesus is greater than John the Baptist. In Luke 3:16 John the Baptist referring to Jesus said he was “not fit to untie the thong of His sandals.” John also affirm Jesus is greater than John the Baptist when he contrasted his baptism with water with Jesus’ baptism which in Luke 3:16 he told his audience that Jesus “will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” Yet notice how Jesus used “No one” in Luke 7:28: “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” Here Jesus is using the pronoun “No one” in the sense of “No one else with the exception of the speaker (Jesus).” We use that kind of language too in our every day language.
- The argument is even more suspect in light of the rest of the teaching of the book of Luke and Mark that affirm Jesus as God. The individual on Twitter name drop Bart Ehrman as someone to validate her view that the Gospel does not teach Jesus is God with the Gospel of Mark in particular. But the Gospel does affirm Jesus including the book of Mark. Ehrman does not represent the consensus of scholarship and in fact has been refuted by others. See my post here. So in light of other passages within the book of Mark and Luke affirming Jesus is God, this makes our troll’s objection suspect and we’ve already shown above the exegetical problem with her interpretation of those verses.
- This is no argument against Jesus’ divinity or the Trinity if one recognizes the error committed by this argument.
- For more on the Trinity check out our Seventeen Sessions on the Trinity! Audios and Notes.
[…] Argument against the Trinity? Did Jesus himself said he wasn’t God? […]
Very well said. Of course, Jesus is the Son of God. This is clear.
Blessings.
Unfortunately people will fall for false messages like that if they don’t know the context of the passage. We need to know the word better than the world so we know how to answer their questions and not get trapped. Good post
Amen pastor Clark, we should definitely know the Word better than the world. I remember in the Marines memorizing facts about our weapons and we too should know our sword of the Spirit! Thanks for this encouragement.
No problem. Any time. If you ever have any questions or need help, just say so and I’ll do what I can do.
Yes, I have seen several deniers of the Trinity and Jesus’s divinity point to these passages. Thanks for this thorough rebuttal! You obviously put a lot of work into this.
Thanks I did put a bit of effort in this and didn’t post this yesterday till like 11 AM and was thinking about it for a few day actually! I imagine you spend some time with your Friday counter-rebuttals series!
RE: time with Friday counter rebuttals
Yeah, I actually wrote the one for this Friday very early this morning. It took a long time to research and write. Definitely a workout at 5 AM. I’m not going to procrastinate so long for the next one. Will start the draft outline today.
It’s really easy to read a single verse out of context and make baseless claims. It’s a good reminder to look at all of scripture, not just the parts that support your claim.
Amen sister
Excellent.
Thank you, spent a long time on this post with the Biblical Greek too! Don’t know how one can deny Jesus is God, He can forgive sins and only God can forgive sins, amen? Hope you are doing well.
Doing well and hope you are same.
I like how you were gracious enough with the troll to restate her argument in a stronger manner than how she gave it before you thoroughly refuted her with the Greek.
Well done. J.
Very wisely explained
Of COURSE a question is not the same as a statement. If it were, people could interpret any question any way they wanted. But apparently that’s going on anyway.
Excellent refutation, as usual.
She missed ‘the rest of the story. Jesus also staid “I and my Father are one.” (John 10:30) I probably would have reminded her of that passage and then asked her what her proof text in light of John 10:30.
Good idea of the tactics of what to do with the objection. Thanks also for reading this. The Gospel Of John has so many references to the divinity of Jesus. You got to have a bad hermeneutics to deny it. I imagine you agree…
Your imaginings are spot on!
You’re right. We need to be contextual in our interpretation of God’s Word. Astounding proofs are available for those who do the work of reading in context.
[…] Argument against the Trinity? Did Jesus himself said he wasn’t God? […]
Excellent! I missed this one the first time out.
Craig how many years have you spent as a student of Greek? I know it must be years…
About 6, 7 or so. I’ve focused on the verbal system, grammar and syntax.