For today’s post we will tackle the question the Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: How many of Zattu’s offspring returned from Babylon?
Here are the answers which the skeptic believes indicate a Bible contradiction:
945
“the sons of Zattu, 945;” (Ezra 2:8)
845
“the sons of Zattu, 845;” (Nehemiah 7:13)
(All Scriptural quotation comes from the New American Standard Bible)
Here’s a closer look at whether or not there is a contradiction:
- When dealing with skeptics’ claim of Bible contradictions it seems one can never be reminded enough of what exactly is a contradiction. A contradiction occurs when two or more claims conflict with one another so that they cannot simultaneously be true in the same sense and at the same time. To put it another way, a Bible contradiction exists when there are claims within the Bible that are mutually exclusive in the same sense and at the same time.
- One should be skeptical of whether this is a Bible contradiction given the Skeptic Annotated Bible’s track record of inaccurately handling the Bible. See the many examples of their error which we have responded to in this post: Collection of Posts Responding to Bible Contradictions. Of course that does not take away the need to respond to this claim of a contradiction, which is what the remainder of this post will do. But this observation should caution us to slow down and look more closely at the passages cited by the Skeptic Annotated Bible to see if they interpreted the passages properly to support their conclusion that it is a Bible contradiction.
- The skeptic tries to pit Ezra 2:8 as affirming the claim “845 of Zattu’s offspring returned from Babylon” against Nehemiah 7:13 as affirming “845 of Zattu’s offspring returned from Babylon.”
- One must always figure out the context of the verses the skeptic cited.
- The book of Ezra was written before the book of Nehemiah. The purpose of the book of Ezra records God’s fulfillment of bringing back the nation of Israel after 70 years of captivity. The first six chapters of Ezra record Zerubbael’s leadership in leading the exiles to return to build the alter in Jerusalem. Chapter 7-10 record how 80 years after Zerubbabel’s first trip Ezra journeyed to Jerusalem with a second group and how God used Ezra to bring about reform (William MacDonald, Believer’s Bible Commentary, 482).
- The book of Nehemiah record the third great leader of the Jewish return and restoration to the Promise Land after the Exile. Nehemiah was originally a cup bearer to the Persian King who thirteen year after Ezra’s expedition he was burden for the conditions of Jerusalem (William MacDonald, Believer’s Bible Commentary, 482). So God use Nehemiah to restore the city walls of Jerusalem and also other spiritual and moral reforms.
- Knowing the background of both books we can see that the time between Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7 is about a period of 93 years or so.
- Knowing there is a 93 years period between Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7 help us to understand the possible reasons for the differences of both chapters’ listing.
- First off In Ezra 2:1 it seems to indicate the list is giving an account of those who decided to depart Babylon in order to return to the promise land: “Now these are the people of the province who came up out of the captivity of the exiles whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away to Babylon, and returned to Jerusalem and Judah, each to his city.“
- The purpose of listing the first generation’s return to the Jerusalem in Nehemiah 7 seems to be for the reason of organizing a new genealogy in Nehemiah’s day by first basing it upon the template of the first genealogy of the first generation. Note Nehemiah 7:5: “Then my God put it into my heart to assemble the nobles, the officials and the people to be enrolled by genealogies. Then I found the book of the genealogy of those who came up first in which I found the following record:” The different purposes must be remembered.
- Considering that Ezra 2:1 mentioned that the list in Ezra 2 are those who left the captivity in Babylon to return to Jerusalem we must remember that it is situated in a context in which Ezra 1 the people have not arrived yet to Jerusalem while the people arrived in the end of chapter 2 and beginning of chapter 3 of Ezra. It is reasonable to understand the listing of names and numbers in Ezra refer to those who departed Babylon. But just because one departed from Babylon for the promise land does not mean everyone would have arrived. Even with modern military units when we walk on foot hiking somewhere it doesn’t mean 100% of us arrive at our destination especially if there’s some incredible distance to travel; why won’t be surprised with civilians and families traveling that some will not arrive at their final destination for whatever reason?
- Thus Nehemiah 7’s listing might be of those who actually did arrive in Jerusalem and the promise land and not just a listing of those who attempted to return back to Jerusalem and the promise land.
- Also even upon their arrival to the promise land that doesn’t mean there’s a census done right away; there’s lots to do to settle in and the work of census for a genealogy might be a significant time later when things are more stable.
- Also given there’s 93 years between the two listing we can understand the latter listing in Nehemiah 7 might be a count of the population at a given specific time. Don’t forget population changes up and down for many reasons: death, births, young men coming of age in which they are now counted as adults, etc.
- There is no contradiction here. Seems the skeptic needs to learn of How to Handle Bible Contradictions.
- We shouldn’t miss that worldviews are at play even with the skeptic’s objection to Christianity. The worldview of the author of the Skeptic Annotated Bible actually doesn’t even allow for such a thing as the law of non-contradiction to be meaningful and intelligible. In other words for him to try to disprove the Bible by pointing out that there’s a Bible contradiction doesn’t even make sense within his own worldview. Check out our post “Skeptic Annotated Bible Author’s Self-Defeating Worldview.”
How many offspring/genealogy “contradictions” do you have left? I saw that this Wells guy listed this as # 270 and has 14 more of the same type in a row. Are you going to refute these in order? Or better said, how do you decide which to refute (I know your aim/goal is to refute all of them). Of all your many posts, this series is the most powerful. Love and blessings to you, Nancy and kiddos!
Thanks for reading this and good to hear from you sister! I didn’t realize how many of those same types there were though I know they were in a row and I was going in a row with those particular set and I think this is the third one. When I refute these Bible contradictions each week I choose them more on an ad hoc basis, but each one usually I spent some time gazing at them and thinking a little about them from previous weeks. Now that there are more I refuted I have to double check on the blog I’m not refuting ones I have written on since I accidentally have two contradictions I responded to twice! Thanks for the words of blessings by the way for Nancy and the kids! How is your part of the country doing post-Election in this present limbo and more importantly how are you and Nathan doing? I hope soon you can take your trips to those historical sites when things for more certainty will calm down as I would love to read those posts of those locations from you 🙂
Sometime tomorrow I will look over all your skeptic posts and I will cross off all the ones you did and email you what is left. Maybe you could print or save the Word doc list and check them off as you go? NOT trying to tell you what to do or take over your system!!
All I know is that PA and how they are counting votes is aggravating everyone. It appears the only thing PA Republicans and democrats agree on is that our governor is a moron. How are things in your area? I am thankful for you and your peeps!
You are right, Jim, it is worldview and vying for quantity of alleged contradictions than a well thought of allegations. We have many things to consider before concluding but not the skeptics.
Thank you brother Kent for reading this. Going tangent I finished the episode on poop and numbers (Benford’s law) for the documentary series “Connected,” well more like listened to them while I was doing other things such as writing and organizing notes. The Benford law one I felt when the hosts ask experts if they feel something mystical and as if the world is designed in what looks like and feels like Chaos I felt like shouting and praising God to think of His providential hands and fingerprint. Did you get the same feelings as well?
Yes, Jim, it is GOD’s providential hands! We see it in the lenses of GOD created everything and is on top of His creation including the physical laws and patterns that we see and discover in our finite mind. These laws and patterns help us understand the world we are in. Science and modern computing sees the pattern on different aspects of daily life and evirons that seems to follow certain notions e.g. Benford’s Law. Indeed it is just GOD’s hand/work/creation that we try to comprehend.
It is enjoyable to read this. Great points. If they try to use contexts and explore the historical situation including the timing of the two chapters one will see the point you made about the numbers stepping off and the numbers who arrived and counted at a later point.
Thanks for thoroughly debunking another one of Steve/Stephen Wells’ alleged contradictions and pointing out the difference of 93 years between the writings. Steve/Stephen was so determined to cherry pick himself another contradiction, he forgot about basic research protocols.
I personally would be embarrassed to be Steve Wells pitching the many so called contradictions he’s tried to convince others. Some of them are down right dishonest of him though this one was harder to refute since it requires knowing the context of what’s going on and when things were written in Nehemiah and Ezra. Hope you are productive with the leaves today?
RE: leaves?
Thanks, brother. Just got done corralling and dragging 4 tarpfulls of leaves. I’m bushed. How’s your day starting out?
Hey atheist I have something to tell you: Never trust the Skeptic Annotated Bible just because its online lol.
Brother, thanks for setting this straight. Well researched as always.
Blessings.
Wow. A difference of 100 people over 90 years seems nitpicky to begin with.
Definitely nitpicking going on here with the skeptic lol. How is your week going so far brother RG?
Great when you consider how much The Good Lord is doing for us! My wife is going to get ready for her surgery in December, and I’m having a bone marrow biopsy sometime soon. Scary stuff, but I’m looking forward to our testimony when it’s all over! Glory to God!
Wow, so many “contradictions” you have dealt with. I probably haven’t read half of them. Do you know off hand whether you’ve looked at Luke 12:37 vs. Luke 17:7-10? I just read Luke 17 this morning, and the earlier passage was still pretty fresh in my mind. Just wondering your thoughts on those…
I’ll have to look at that tomorrow instead of tonight and I haven’t covered that before. Going to look at it tomorrow when I have more strength and wisdom lol. Sister I’m sooo glad to hear your grandkids professed faith, that is so precious! I imagine behind it is a lot of prayers from you and the kids’ parents. This is something joyful to hear when there’s been so many rough news this year in 2020. I imagine you are also continuing to pray for our country at this time?
Oh yes Every night for the past 15+ years. 😉
The skeptics fault finding is ludicrous.
You have once again excelled in debunking this imaginary contradiction.
Thanks for reading this and your encouragement with this ongoing project of debunking the Skeptic Annotated Bible. I know you are praying for us in the US please know I’m praying for your Friday evangelism effort of you and your team be used by God to plant seeds that result in salvation
Thank you so much pastor Jim .
Your passion for the Scripture must be intense for you to write so many of these posts going into the details refuting the skeptics
I trust God’s counting than man’s counting. You explained this well.
So true seeing this election in America
Bravo
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Well done. I think cleanliness wasn’t what it is now and living in an urban area might mean population decreases especially in a city that doesn’t seem working well with the basic defense of a city wall.
I feel the atheist is so trivial
[…] How many of Zattu’s offspring returned from Babylon? […]
I can’t imagine if you didn’t write this if I would have been able to solved this myself! I don’t have enough historical background knowledge
I wonder if the atheist ever wonder how they could be wrong twisting the Scriptures like that
[…] How many of Zattu’s offspring returned from Babylon? […]
Interesting, well handled.
Thanks Philandar for reading this and also your interactions over at Gab!!!