I want to answer a question.
Here is what a father asked concerning his child:
He’s very angry with God and his issues seem to be summed up in the problem of evil. He acknowledges God is, but “I don’t want to worship him when he messed up my life and took my brother”. Anyone have a handle on how to deal with this? Any experience with a similar situation?
Here is my take.
This is heavy and I was led to pray for you and for your son before answering.
- I think it is important to review the biblical reasons why God allows suffering. As a father knowing this will be important when conversations with your son comes up. I have linked a summary list of these reasons and a verse or two for them. If there are more let me know so I can add to it. I think in conversations sharing one or two per conversation is helpful.
- As a pastor it seems ministering with people with loss and post-trauma we sometimes can’t remove the bad things that has happened from happening but it seems a lot of post-trauma has a dimension of seeing there’s no meaning to the suffering which expounds the problem the person has. So knowing biblical reasons of suffering helps equips us to minister. It doesn’t mean the main will go away but his interpretation of what happened either helps or hinders.
- If I did my math right he’s 13 (I’m not a math major or a son of a math major). That’s a tough age with everything else not just only with the trauma of dealing with from changing body, his peers being difficult on him too, having friends, etc. So don’t forget these environmental issues do contribute to how he reflect on the loss he’s experienced. I think regularly asking your son how’s his day, his week, etc, is also important while also keeping a prayerful ear to know how to pray for him of things in his daily life. Sometimes ask him point blank how he can pray for him. Sure he will roll his eyes, get angry at times, etc. But I believe he will at least know you care for him and you love God so that when and if God works in his heart to turn to God he knows to go to you for further guidance, instruction and love and prayer. Also I think if he knows you listen to him with regards to many areas of his life when you do speak to him boldly the truth about God and the Gospel he knows you’re not just a guy that wants to preach and speak your opinion but he knows you love him.
- Not every talk with your child has to be about the problem of evil. Talk about Jesus. Jesus’ suffering in his humanity is important and tying it to the Gospel that he suffered for us, for our sins. I think this is so important because sometimes people don’t intellectually solve the problem of evil for specific suffering before they come to Christ but its them coming to Christ that then they re-evaluate how they interpret the suffering and problem of evil.
- God has not made you carry this burden alone. Make sure you are also talking to your spouse and praying with her and also you lead her and shepherd her too to shepherd your son together. Some seeds we plant are water with the tears of our spouse’s prayers. Shepherding your spouse also is a force multiplier that helps you minister to your son especially if you two are on the same page. A loving home and example of Christ is what he needs more than he realizes even as he thinks the biggest thing he’s wrestling with is his loss. Satan is going to want to wreck more damage by also attacking you and your spouse to add to your son’s complaint against God. Let not Satan win in this front but rather let this be an opportunity to be salt and light.
- I hope you are in a Bible believing church that has elders you can go to, to share about what’s going on both for guidance, prayer and assistance. Also pray for your elders to have wisdom from God to counsel you with the specifics that of course we in this group do not know about.
- The road ahead might not be easy. I can’t imagine how you feel thinking about your son’s relations with God. I think its important to remember too that sometimes your son might not change. But the person that should change through all of this is you; that is, you become more loving, more Spirit filled, more closer to God and more biblically driven. Paradoxically as you grow in Christ through this is the thing your son needs the most from you: a genuine Spirit filled father who loves him that doesn’t rock in your faith because of circumstances who is grounded in the Word.
- Preach the whole Gospel to him. The Gospel makes sense in light of some bad news the Bible tells us. It tells us why suffering happen: Sin. The also tells us we are not just only undeserving of anything, but it is far worst than that: We are actually ill-deserving. The Lord already gives and take away, but in light of our sins we don’t deserve even a single breath of life. Sharing the bad news should also lead us to make a beeline to the Good News: God has sent Jesus to die to rescue us from the wrath to come, but He wants to be right with Him and have relations with Him. One day every tear will be wiped away by God Himself.
Good points in difficult spiritual counseling. #6 is so important, if one already is in church and has godly leadership, they may have a foundation to weather the storm.
I find in such trauma either people desperately want to understand and hold onto their faith or use grief as more ammunition to disprove God to others.
Thanks for valuable insights Pastor.
Lisa thank you for reading this. And sharing your thoughts, adding to this post. If you can pray for this father too, yeah? Let me know what I can pray for you
Yes brother, I will pray for this grieving man, may the Lord come along side him and stick “closer than a brother”.
Thanks for the great insight and suggestions. My mother passed away when I was 12. The good news, which helped, was that she was a great woman of faith. She personally led me to Jesus. All my friends and I went to the same church which was very supportive. Everyone was praying for me. I think it was toughest on my dad.
Thanks for the sensitivity of your thought and pastoral care.
Blessings.
This is a tough one to handle but you gave great advice! We can see why it is important to have a great relationship with your children. Be close to them daily and even closer to God. One thing I have shared with those who grieve is no more sickness, no more pain, a new body and in the presence of God. Consider the possibility of living longer, getting older and diseased or crippled. Quality over quantity! Perhaps God sees all this in his infinite wisdom. The other thing is I paint this picture of them in heaven beholding the elders crying Holy Holy Holy!!! I lost my wife on 9-2-2001 to cancer and her mother also to cancer about a year later! One of my younger brother-in-laws grieved really bad at the losses when his mom died! I feel like the Holy Spirit gave me this scenario about my wife, his sister, and his mom walking around heaven holding hands and smiling while in no pain! All of a sudden his mom looks over and says do you see that and do you hear them? It is a glorious moment and neither of them would leave heaven’s bliss for this earth!
*When we don’t know that someone has been born again, it makes it difficult to counsel. That’s a whole new ballgame! You gave the best advice: love God in front of them, care for them, pray for them! We can only ask God to give us words of comfort by any means. Pray that the Holy Spirit speaks to by dream, by the word of God, or by any encouragement from us or heaven. Father, we ask these words of wisdom be granted to us by the Holy Spirit in the name of Yeshua, Jesus the Christ!
Thank you for sharing this! Wow you lost your wife right before September 11; that must have been one month for you. Thanks for sharing your own journey and witnessing. Thank you also for your last sentence being a prayer!!
Thanks for sharing this good counsel to a father who has a son who is bitter against God. Yup, teenagers are tough because they’re generally rebelling against EVERYTHING including God.
Yeah that age general disposition of rebellion doesn’t help and compound the problem with spiritual view of God when a child has experience loss and trauma. This led me to pray for your sons’ salvation Tom. Hope today is not too crazy with things you have to do as I know tomorrow you will be working. Going to do my long range pastoral visitation today
Thanks for your prayers for our sons! I appreciate that.
Today I was mostly working on my sister’s finances. Went to her bank and got some things in place I should have done a month ago.
I hope your visitations goes well! I prayed for you and those you visit.
All eight points, when done by heart with prayer to GOD (who gives strength/stamina and peace/patience of heart to do it) and not methodological, will help foster a right relationship to GOD for the boy or anyone else with similar situation. You are right, force multiplier is needed here and parents must have a single stand. My preference are points 4, 5, 7, and 8. Blessings to you and your family!
Thanks for your comment; you are right this must be done prayerfully. It isn’t mere methods. Thanks for highlighting that point 4, 5, 7 and 8 stood out to you! Hope you get well rested for Friday!
I’m not asking this to pry, I promise you! Do you know how his brother died? How long has it been since he passed? Was he older, younger? Has the father shown grief over losing his son? I agree with your list of suggestions. For me, at 13 I think he will need A LOT of empathy and patience with #3. Some cultures at 13 it is unacceptable for boys to show emotion from all my counseling classes and experience he needs to be able process his feelings. Not wallow and stay there or anything like that. This is where depending on the knowledge of the youth talk about Jesus in His Humanity how He suffered and died, experienced pain. I am praying for the youth, it’s a hard age.
It was a miscarriage that happened five years ago. Much sensitivity is needed. Pray for RBI’s father yeah? And his son. Thanks for asking
Will pray for for the father and the son. Thank you for the update helps me know how to pray. Hope your long driving day went smoothly.
Excellent.
Thank you Maw mAw
Welcome, Grand.
Wonderful response, amen. “Focus on Jesus,” so important! The world, flesh, and the devil want us to focus on everything but. Our trials may be great, but Christ is greater.
Indeed we must focus on Christ! Hope you are doing well?
Thank you for sharing. This is a most difficult situation even more so with a thirteen year old. You raised some good counselling points. Point number seven I can relate to.
Blessings
Thanks for sharing and how you see point 7 is something the case in your life. I just prayed for the salvation of both your kids and grandkids!
I so appreciate it. Thank you pastor Jim, God bless you,
Such situation requires a lot of prayer
Well said, Jim. You’ve made some good points. Unfortunately, this common response to God reveals a major misconception about our relationship with God. It exacerbates how we navigate through difficulty in a healthy. God never causes the evil that may befall us, but He works it together for our good. So, I wouldn’t say the following to someone grieving, but I teach the following to help them before they experience pain and loss, so they know how to deal with it when it happens (which it will!)
The big picture is that in this world we will certainly suffer loss, trouble, evil, etc. But Jesus overcame the world, and we overcome every situation in Him (John 16:33). Unfortunately, the enemy has whispered lies about God’s goodness and character in our ears. Furthermore, it’s just really bad theology to let someone believe that Jesus will make all our problems go away. Yes, He could stop evil, but He won’t because love requires free will and circumstances to play themselves out, but He will never leave you as you go through it with Him. Hopefully, we’ll grow closer to Him in the process. In the meantime, He helps us grieve and heal when we need to grieve and heal, and we can experience His joy and peace and the fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23), which are not based at all on our circumstances. That’s why we can sing “All is Well with my Soul” with a full heart and without duplicity. Paul had joy while in prison, being beaten, etc. When we learn this about our relationship with God in this world, it prepares us for how to not only survive trials and loss, but to overcome in and through them.
Of all you said this stood out to me: “Hopefully, we’ll grow closer to Him in the process. In the meantime, He helps us grieve and heal when we need to grieve and heal, and we can experience His joy and peace and the fruit of the Spirit (Gal.5:22-23), which are not based at all on our circumstances” I think that is so true and we must keep that front and center in our trials and also when we minister to those hurting. Thanks for sharing brother Mel!
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Dear Pastor Jim,
This is such a difficult issue, requiring great love and discernment, and ideally an intimate knowledge of the young man himself. Your advice is sage. There are many truths to consider, but with the emotional, psychological, and spiritual complexities of every individual, I don’t believe there is a one-size-fits-all answer on how to apply truth to a wounded, rebellious soul whom we love. Thank you for raising this complex issue because we do well to consider it before we inevitably find ourselves facing it with someone we love. I really have nothing to contribute of my own, but I was put in mind of a quote that has oft been a balm for me personally, which I have pasted below.
God bless,
Craig
“There are two kinds of love: “love because of” the good and beautiful in a person, and “love in spite” of all that this person does to puzzle and hurt us. Obviously, “love in spite of” is superior. It is the most exquisite jewel to be found in the universe. God loves us in spite of our sins. Jesus loved His torturers in spite of what they did to Him. We can love God not only because of the splendid things that enchant us in the universe, but also in spite of the sufferings we encounter. Without pain in this world, the highest form of love could not exist. This love is worth its price.”
Wurmbrand, Richard //(2011-05-24). Proofs of God’s Existence (Kindle Locations 1860-1865). Living Sacrifice Book Company. Kindle Edition.
Thank you for sharing that quote Craig and also your comment. I saw you quoted Wubrand’s book. Are you reading that right now or have you read it before? How is the rest of the book?
I read it previously, but saved the quote. I enjoyed the book thoroughly. He wrote it after coming to the West, and in response to the godless communistic philosophy that he had suffered under. It seems to me to be an outreach to those who may have grown up behind the iron curtain and may be open to the things of God but had been conditioned against them. It is not so much a tight, philosophical apologetic, as it is a wide ranging appeal to all of the elements of a person – reason, yes, but also to their emotions, to their own hurts, hopes, and so on. I found it engaging, and enjoyable. I could see how the Lord could use it to draw someone whose heart is being prepared, but I don’t see it winning philosophical debates or making someone in rebellion do an about face.
[…] I want to answer a question. (Source) […]
Any type of trauma or grief can upend one’s faith. It’s like the floodgates have burst, and negativity muscles in to take over. Your points provide an excellent resource. Thanks for sharing Jim.
My son’s father committed suicide when he was 15. I kept asking the Lord how I can help him. I was so desperate to help him because he had gotten really sideways, I fully expected him to drop out of school.The Lord very clearly put it on my heart to meet him where he is and show him the love of Christ. To love him well. To grieve with him. The Lord also made me understand that this was not my problem to fix, that this was my son’s journey and I had to lay my anxiety and worries at Jesus’s feet and give God room to work in our lives. This article is good. Pray for you son without ceasing. Grief is a process and moving forward takes time. My son is 18 now and in a much better place. He graduated high school and has a job. He laughs often. Is he walking with God? Not the way he should be, not yet. But I’m confident Jesus will draw him in with his loving kindness and lead him to repentance. Watching God move in our lives is humbling and beautiful. God is faithful. I will be praying for this family.
To all who all who are lonely, grieving, wanting to commit suicide, I have bad news and good news the bad news is we are all born sinner in Adam none are good we have all myself included have broken God’s law which include stealing, taking God’s name in vain and using it as a cuss word, lied, covet what others have and that’s 4 of the 10 Commandments. Here is the Good News. Here is the Gospel. Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
— 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
And here is what Jesus said. Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
— John 19:30
But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving.
That which I have vowed I will pay.
Salvation is from the Lord.”
— Jonah 2:9
Salvation is from the Lord we can’t work for it, earn it, or merit it, it is from the Lord alone so is grace. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
— Ephesians 2:8-10
No one is good I’m not a good person either nope. All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
— Romans 3:12
Today is the day of salvation. Repent and believe the Gospel and you will find Jesus to be a perfect Savior and Jesus lived the perfect life we can’t and kept the law we can’t. We owed a debt we can’t pay and He paid a debt He didn’t owe. Our righteousness is as filthy rags as Isaiah says which is why we need His imputed righteousness by faith.
Mark 1:15
New American Standard Bible 1995
15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God [a]is at hand; repent and [b]believe in the gospel.”
May 25 for those who followed and read my blog on WordPress you know what that day is for me a day when my dear grandma died to go how and be with Jesus. The last time I heard her voice was Mother’s Day. I regret not saying goodbye I just couldn’t do it I hate sin and death!
I went through the five stages of grief I was angry but not angry at God I was broken I had brothers and sisters in Christ from WordPress praying for me and my family. I called up a dear brother in Christ before she died and told him and just wept on the phone him and his spouse prayed for me.
I would tell the Lord to tell grandma I’m doing fine and I love you for me and have done that.
[…] might be helpful to help “prime the pump” of things you can say with specific trials: Help! Son rejecting God because of loss, Biblical Counseling: Parenting Rebels and Apostates and Help! I’m Discouraged since I don’t […]
Thanks for the advice, how can I thank you?