For today’s post we will tackle the question the Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: When were the stars made?
Here are the answers which the skeptic believes indicate a Bible contradiction:
On the fourth day of creation, after the earth was made.
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1)
“God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.” (Genesis 1:16-19)
Before the earth was made.
“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you [a]have understanding, 5 Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the measuring line over it? 6 On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?.” (Job 38:4-7)
(All Scriptural quotation comes from the New American Standard Bible)
Here’s a closer look at whether or not there is a contradiction:
- When dealing with skeptics’ claim of Bible contradictions it seems one can never be reminded enough of what exactly is a contradiction. A contradiction occurs when two or more claims conflict with one another so that they cannot simultaneously be true in the same sense and at the same time. To put it another way, a Bible contradiction exists when there are claims within the Bible that are mutually exclusive in the same sense and at the same time.
- One should be skeptical of whether this is a Bible contradiction given the Skeptic Annotated Bible’s track record of inaccurately handling the Bible. See the many examples of their error which we have responded to in this post: Collection of Posts Responding to Bible Contradictions. Of course that does not take away the need to respond to this claim of a contradiction, which is what the remainder of this post will do. But this observation should caution us to slow down and look more closely at the passages cited by the Skeptic Annotated Bible to see if they interpreted the passages properly to support their conclusion that it is a Bible contradiction.
- The skeptic tries to pit Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:16-19 as affirming the claim “Stars were created on the fourth day of creation, after the earth was made” against Job 38:4-7 as affirming “Stars were created before the earth was made.”
- One need to as if the skeptics cited the passages properly.
- Looking at the sequence of Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:16-19 we see it is correct to conclude the “Stars were created on the fourth day of creation, after the earth was made.”
- It seems problematic to interpret Job 38:4-7 as affirming “Stars were created before the earth was made.”
- On the Skeptic Annotated Bible website it actually quote parts of the passage from the King James version: “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? … When the morning stars sang together.” The skeptic not quoting the passage in its entirely seems like a rather deliberate omission of key words that indicate this is not a contradiction.
- Don’t forget Job’s literary form is poetry as oppose to Genesis 1 which is narrative in its literary genre. This is important to keep in mind. I would defer to the narrative account for literal historical time sequences.
- Looking at Job 38:7 I think the two lines are important in interpreting what’s going on. I think the first line and the second line are synonymous. That is, it is reinforcing the point by repeating. I say this because notice the first and second line the verb involves singing and shouting for joy. While the second line the subjects are “sons of God” which namely are angelic beings I think the first subjects “morning stars” are not literal morning stars but actually another name for angelic beings.
- Isaiah 42:12 hints that the morning stars are heavenly beings also: “How you have fallen from heaven, You star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who defeated the nations!” This historically has been understood as Satan.
- Remember the poetic nature of Job lean support to interpreting the morning stars as angelic heavenly beings.
- Also don’t forget the book of Job is rich with insights for readers on heavenly beings; so don’t miss out on angelic beings being referred to here especially since there’s a parallel second line in the verse that explicitly refer to “sons of God.”
- If Job 38:7 is talking about angelic heavenly beings instead of heavenly bodies we today in English call stars, then there is not contradiction with Genesis 1.
- Even if one does not agree with my interpretation of Job 38:7 as references to angelic heavenly being as the “morning stars” don’t forget Job 38:7 is poetic and not meant to be sequential historical narrative like in Genesis 1. God could have asked rhetorically Job what little he knew, did he know who laid out the cornerstone of the world and was there heavenly stars singing at the same time?
- There is no contradiction here. Seems the skeptic needs to learn of How to Handle Bible Contradictions.
- We shouldn’t miss that worldviews are at play even with the skeptic’s objection to Christianity. The worldview of the author of the Skeptic Annotated Bible actually doesn’t even allow for such a thing as the law of non-contradiction to be meaningful and intelligible. In other words for him to try to disprove the Bible by pointing out that there’s a Bible contradiction doesn’t even make sense within his own worldview. Check out our post “Skeptic Annotated Bible Author’s Self-Defeating Worldview.”
Excellent insight brother. Appreciate your continuing to tackle these.
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Insightful discussion! I appreciate how you contrasted the difference in meanings and writing style between Genesis and Job.
Thanks for reading this and commenting! Also concerning guest posts from you I don’t mind seeing a post from you!
Would one of my Christian poems be acceptable? I have a few in the works.
Those “morning stars” in Job do seem to be referring to angelic beings as you mention. Also, good point to note that Job is poetry rather than narrative like Genesis.
Thanks brother Frank for reading this and sharing your thoughts. May your day be filled with much opportunities to be a salt and light online today! Have a blessed day Frank!
The Morning stars do look like heavenly beings in light of the parallel
SlimJim, when you get a chance, I need your help if you are willing. Someone is asking me all kinds of questions about The Bible which I am well-equipped to answer, but lately I’ve been a bit under the weather so I could use a bit of help in answering his questions precisely and factually without getting too emotional. If you are able, please let me know.
When I read his questions, I realized he wasn’t trying to find God, but was attempting to attack and dismantle my own beliefs. This is where I’m afraid I’ll get too emotional and defensive. I don’t want him to perceive this as he’ll use it against me, and rightly so.
If I just ignore him, he’ll go on his merry way thinking, “Ha ha, I knew it.”
Anyway, it is through email in which we have been “conversing”. If you can help me provide facts without emotion, I’d be grateful. I already know the answers to his questions but I’m taken aback by his blatant attempts to destabilize me in my beliefs (which cannot be done, but is still making me feel flustered).
Wow just prayed for you and for that person . Is your email with wordpress current as I will email you?
____
Please do not publish this comment. ♥️ Thank you!
I mean to please not publish my email address. Lol
Thanks for debunking another one of Steve/Stephen Wells alleged contradictions. Your explanation makes Biblical sense. I’m curious how Wells compiled his long list? Did he read through the Bible and slowly list “contradictions” using recall of previously read passages or did he use a concordance looking for same words/phrases used in different contexts?
Yeah I wonder how he came up with the contradictions, I imagine to have such a long list he probably did use concordances and then notice differences but then he passes them off as contradictions; but distinctions and differences aren’t contradiction per se!
In answering the skeptics ironically I do use concordances or look up occurrences of Greek and Hebrew terms…so its interesting to see what he might have used to attack the Bible are tools to answer the skeptics. How is your Thursday going? I’m at my parents place, helped moved the refrigerator to someone who wanted to buy it, and now I’m helping them pack more things for the new place and to donate. Then I heard the news of the Marines that were killed today in the airport…man what a day, this isn’t going to be an easy one. Anyways, how is your Thursday going so far with your errands?
Glad your able to help your parents with the big activity. Moving a fridge is no joke. I finished the trim yesterday and rolled the flat surfaces today. About 80% done. Next week I’ll be focusing on a problem area with rotted wood. I saved the worst for last. Yeah. I heard about the attacks at the Kabul airport while I was painting. What a tragedy this whole thing is.
When I read the verses that Wells quoted I literally thought to myself “oh gees!” Appreciate you mentioning literary genre, that is so important to understanding passages in their appropriate context! I would add that Job follows Gen 11. It is contextually and applicably significant that Job was before Abraham (Gen 12). God in His grace uses Job to shape the Patriarchs, Israel’s early church’s and believers today understanding of creation, trials/calamities, created beings and suffering. While this is now totally off track, it humbles me that God in His grace and mercy dealt with human suffering before His covenant to Abraham (Gen 12). May Wells come to know that Jesus is the Living Redeemer who in the end will stand upon the earth (Job 19:25). Really great work with this post, Jimmy!
Man I finally saw the official DOD briefing…there’s 12 servicemembers killed. This morning I heard it was 3 Marines but it was not official sources. How are you and how is Nathan with this news? This is sooo frustrating and sad. I suspect the last soldiers out will have a crazy rear guard action like none other…
This has put Nathan over the edge. All I said was that if he needs to go I love him and support him. It is beyond words at this point. How are you holding up? This is going to put the other prior military folks into a tailspin as well.
Continue in prayer for this man.
Praying too for this man! I don’t know if you also heard about the marines today that died in Afghanistan…wanted to ask Maw Maw if you can also pray for that situation…so heavy for me to hear about that news!
Have been in prayer for this also.
Good post Jim, these are always educational and a goof counter to a lot of the bad information one can find online.
Hope someone is blessed by these posts.
Thanks James; how are you doing with all that’s on the news?
I am doing well but mostly because I am not following the news very closely. I am aware of what is going on but only generally, I have cut out all the chatter and endless commentary. I work on a military base and have a bunch of friends who serve and have served and not all of them are doing great. It’s a very tough time.
How are you?
Your answer is logical. I too am leaning that the morning stars are angels from your argument.
You should turn these into
Turn these into a book
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