For today’s post we will tackle the question the Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: When did Absalom rebel against David?
Here are the answers which the skeptic believes indicate a Bible contradiction:
After forty years
“Now it came about at the end of four years that Absalom said to the king, “Please let me go and pay my vow which I have made to the Lord, in Hebron. 8 For your servant made a vow while I was living in Geshur in Aram, saying, ‘If the Lord will indeed bring me back to Jerusalem, then I will serve the Lord.’” 9 The king said to him, “Go in peace.” So he got up and went to Hebron. 10 But Absalom sent spies throughout the tribes of Israel, saying, “As soon as you hear the sound of the trumpet, then you shall say, ‘Absalom is king in Hebron!’” (2 Samuel 15:7-10)
Less than forty years since David only ruled for a total of forty years.
“David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years.” (2 Samuel 5:4)
(All Scriptural quotation comes from the New American Standard Bible)
Here’s a closer look at whether or not there is a contradiction:
- When dealing with skeptics’ claim of Bible contradictions it seems one can never be reminded enough of what exactly is a contradiction. A contradiction occurs when two or more claims conflict with one another so that they cannot simultaneously be true in the same sense and at the same time. To put it another way, a Bible contradiction exists when there are claims within the Bible that are mutually exclusive in the same sense and at the same time.
- One should be skeptical of whether this is a Bible contradiction given the Skeptic Annotated Bible’s track record of inaccurately handling the Bible. See the many examples of their error which we have responded to in this post: Collection of Posts Responding to Bible Contradictions. Of course that does not take away the need to respond to this claim of a contradiction, which is what the remainder of this post will do. But this observation should caution us to slow down and look more closely at the passages cited by the Skeptic Annotated Bible to see if they interpreted the passages properly to support their conclusion that it is a Bible contradiction.
- The skeptic tries to pit 2 Samuel 15:7-10 as affirming the claim “Absalom rebel against David after forty years of adjudicating at the gate” against 2 Samuel 5:4 as affirming “Absalom rebel against David under forty years of adjudicating at the gate.”
- The skeptic rightly cited 2 Samuel 5:4 as affirming “Absalom rebel against David under forty years of adjudicating at the gate.”
- This passage states David reigned for forty years. David’s son Absalom’s rebellion against David happened when David was reigning so it must obviously be within those forty years.
- Note how in this verse it states that David was thirty years old when he started his reigned.
- The skeptic citing 2 Samuel 15:7-10 as affirming “Absalom rebel against David after forty years of adjudicating at the gate” is based upon a faulty textual issue. It should be translated as “four” instead of “forty.” If the translation is “four years” then it is compatible with 2 Samuel 5:4. Point 6-8 will consider the internal evidence, the external evidence and also explain how the “forty” reading appeared.
- The reason why 2 Samuel 15:7 should be translated as “four” instead of “forty” is from the context of the rest of the book of 2 Samuel itself.
- One thing that lead me to think it is not “forty” years but “four years” is the observation that there is not a change of different named officials with their billet before 2 Samuel 15:7 and after 2 Samuel 15:7 that suggests its more likely four years have passed instead of forty. The reason for that is because it is less plausible to explain the amount of officials that stayed in their office and didn’t die or retired due to age.
- The high priest before 2 Samuel 15:7 was Zadok according to 2 Samuel 8:17. After Absalom’s rebellion Zadok was still the high priest, see for example 2 Samuel 15:24-25, 27, 29, 35-36, 17:15, etc.
- The commander of David’s army before 2 Samuel 15:7 was Joab according to 3:23-24, 8:16, 10:7, 11:1, etc. After Absalom’s rebellion Joab was still the commander, see for example 17:25, 18:2, 18:5, 18:16, etc. What is significant here is that leading an army is going to require someone not too elderly for field expeditions and yet Joab was able to lead the army before and after 2 Samuel 15:7 suggesting four years is more likely than forty years.
- Hiram was king of Tyre before 2 Samuel 15:7 according to 2 Samuel 5:11. The same Hiram was king even after David’s death during Solomon’s reign according to 1 Kings 5:1. So if 2 Samuel 15:7 is forty years that means Hiram lived and reign longer than David did and must have been very old.
- The fact that queen Bathsheba and Saul’s son Mephibosheth was alive before and after Absalom’s rebellion suggests too that this can’t be 40 years during before the rebellion.
- Taken together the fact that there’s still the same individuals all living and still in their position and relations to David suggests that its more plausible to understand that Absalom waited a shorter time before he rebelled rather than forty years.
- The reason why 2 Samuel 15:7 should be translated as “four” instead of “forty” is fortified from the witness of ancient translations.
- According to the Textual Critical Apparatus of the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia for this verse the reading of “four” is attested by the Greek Septuagint, specifically the Luciani text and Codex Coislinianus.
- This isn’t just some one shot but there’s diversity of the additional witness for the reading of “four” since that is what is translated in the Syria Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate which the Textual Critical Appartus also noted.
- Josephus also see this is “four.”
- The explanation why 2 Samuel 15:7 it accidently went from “four” to “forty” for some of the manuscripts is that it is the result of a scribal error.
- Four in Hebrew is אַרְבַּע.
- Forty in Hebrew is אַרְבָּעִים.
- The difference between the two is the ending: ים.
- I think what happened is Absalom in Hebrew is אַבְשָׁלוֹם֙ and its near proximity to “four” if one doesn’t look carefully can be confusing for an careless scribe; note the two words begin with the same letter and the second letter if one doesn’t look carefully can seem the same and the third character for the name can look like the last character in “four” and then the ending of “forty” and ending for Absalom is both ם.
- Thus there is no contradiction here. Seems the skeptic needs to learn of How to Handle Bible Contradictions.
- We shouldn’t miss that worldviews are at play even with the skeptic’s objection to Christianity. The worldview of the author of the Skeptic Annotated Bible actually doesn’t even allow for such a thing as the law of non-contradiction to be meaningful and intelligible. In other words for him to try to disprove the Bible by pointing out that there’s a Bible contradiction doesn’t even make sense within his own worldview. Check out our post “Skeptic Annotated Bible Author’s Self-Defeating Worldview.”
[…] When did Absalom rebel against David? […]
Excellent refutation. Well done.
Have a blessed day.
Good stuff as always
Thanks for reading this brother! It took awhile to write this, I finished at 6 Am so I am glad this is read by someone!
I always read the presupp links, especially lately since I am getting more into it.
Also, have listened to Frank Butler’s lectures a few times now. They are all really good.
Thanks for the careful analysis of this Bible difficulty. Wells would still claim a victory, however we don’t shy away from the presence of scribal errors in manuscript copies. Heads up: in your intro, the correct text is not presented for 2 Samuel 15:7-10.
Wow thanks for catching that Tom! I just corrected that and also fixed a lot of grammatical typos and improved my sentences. I have bad grammar with writing and it doesn’t help I finished this so late at 6 AM! How goes your day today, is it so far a stay at home, snowed-in day, or you had to do errands and use your snowblower?
Brother, I gave you credit for functioning at those hours! I’m a zombie after 9 PM!
We have another “scorcher” here at ROC at 50F so lots of rain. Flood alerts today because of the rain and melting snow.
Brought the car in today for some minor repairs, did my weekend grocery shopping, and finished a book sitting on the couch, which is where I’m staying until lights-out.
How goes your Thursday?
Excellent work with this! I know this took some brain power to fact check four against forty! Mephibosheth is Jonathan’s son or Saul’s grandson. I give you so much respect for your faithfulness in refuting Wells’s lies!
Thanks for noting the work put into this! I do like to get into textual criticism with the OT from time to time and apply what I learn from my ThM class on OT TC. Going tangent what is the textbook you are using for Greek?
We are using Croy’s book. It’s not bad! How’s your day?!
Good point that scribal errors do not imply contradictions in the original text.
Thank you Frank for reading this. You are right that with the original text being four there is not a contradiction. This is one of the alleged contradiction that is not as readily apparent what the answer is compared to most of the ones listed on the Skeptic Annotated Bible which frankly can be kind of silly that the author would even bring up. Thank you Frank for reading this, I hope your day goes well sir! Once more appreciate all your interaction with my posts on Mewe.
Thanks for the long hours of “zone time.” Very clear and logical conclusion.
Thanks for knowing there was a lot of hours of “zone time” poured into this, I like that phrase. How was small group this week?
Great. I really enjoy the time with other godly men and being in the word. Very good discussions arise as we exegete scriptures.
Great work as always, Jim! I did a little more research (at a much lower level than yours) and I think it tells even more about our skeptic. That is the massive number of translations available to Christians and the fact that they agree far more than disagree with each other. Even so, 2 Samuel 15:7-10 came up different in some translations than others. Here are a few I’ve checked:
Those saying forty years – King James Version, New King James Version, American Standard Version, 21st Century King James Version.
Those saying four years – New International Version, English Standard Version, Amplified Bible, God’s Word Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, International Children’s Bible.
I learned a few years back that it was important to have access to more than one translation since I might not understand a verse in one, but another translation would clarify it. Your post has made me realize that God has provided all these translations knowing that the human translators were capable of error, but now we can get a clearer understanding of what God is Teaching us in His Word. Sounds like our skeptic is aiming his darts at Christians who are new in their faith since Christians who are a little more seasoned know about the other translations.
Wow thank you for your deep dive dig into other English translations. I think those various versions behind it is also an issue of what those translators do with variants and how they prioritize manuscript evidence or even the amount of manuscripts they had available. KJV is based upon textual Receptus and there was a few of those around so I think they just had a bad copy being copied again and again. ASV tries to stay close to KjV and NKJV is more Byzantine based. My textual critical approach (called reasoned eclectic TC) tries to account for the earliest copies in multiple languages and OT own method of TC which is more technical IMO than NEw testament textual criticism. But I don’t want to go too far away from General Christian audience and I try to stick to the Scipture that everyone can access and I think point 6 based upon the context of 2 Samuel shows it’s unlikely 40 years is the right reading. Thanks for being a Berean, your comment is helpful to encourage all of us to look at multiple translations! Thank you so much RG !!!
Wow. Bereans searched The Scriptures daily and were considered investigators of The Word, right? Never thought of myself like that. Thanks Jim! This is very encouraging!
Reblogged this on RG's 2 Cents Studios.
He had to dig deep for this.:*(
He did! And sadly if he dug deeper he would have seen there’s not a contradiction. This one was more difficult as I stayed up pretty late with the Hebrew and with textual critical appatatus of my Hebrew Bible. How has your week been overall Maw Maw?
Week has gone well in Christ Jesus. Each day I grow a little stronger is health. Hope yours has been Blessed to the Max.:>)
[…] Bible Contradiction? When did Absalom rebel against David? […]
Great work and reading. Thanks much.
Thanks for reading this! God’s Word is able to defend itself if we see the context. What does your weekend look like sister? I will be on your blog this weekend as I study for all my teachings your song selections will help me stay up to study 🙂
🙌🙌🙌🙌
This is a good case study of why Textual Criticism is important and also how we can still find out what the text really says
Thank you for all the time spent refuting yet another non existent contradiction. I did some research as well and agree with RG2Cents.
Thanks for being a Berean yourself! That gives me much joy that there’s another Berean! That’s so refreshing when we think of how many false teaching and lack of discerning going on among Christians…God bless you Crissy with your example!
Lack of discernment and false teaching is a major concern and it grieves me.
God bless you pastor Jim with favour and endurance.
[…] 2.) Bible Contradiction? When did Absalom rebel against David? […]
Matthew Poole proposes another possibility in his Commentary: that the “forty” reading is correct, but it refers not to forty years of Absalom’s standing at the gate, but rather to forty years of David’s reign.
Whether it’s reasonable to think that David was strong enough to flee Jerusalem so late in life, Poole also considers; but I don’t want to make this comment too long.