A few days ago I wrote “Question: Unbelievers spiritually blinded and also knows there is a God?”
It made me think tangent to the possibility of not only suppression of truth by nonbelievers but also the suppression of the memory of the act of suppression of truth.
A few years ago we had a guy in our church. He was with our church for a few years. He was in our small group, our Bible studies and I also had personal discipleship with him. Then when he decided to take more college classes (after finishing his bachelors) he went through a turbulent time period emotionally and spiritually.
And one day he came out and said he just got saved.
Usual praise to God followed from others. I mean “usual” in the sense that we know its the right thing to do, to praise God for saving sinners.
But a few days into this new found salvation things took a dark turn. What got strange was that his narrative of his time at our church start changing.
He went to another church and told a pastor who went to the same seminary as I did that I was preaching legalism and didn’t preach the Gospel. But he couldn’t stop talking about it and shared his opinion with everyone. Worst was him sharing to the ones that weren’t doing spiritually well.
I met up with him for him for lunch and I hope to clear some misunderstanding but I wasn’t anticipating what he said next: he told me I never met up with him before. And that was a bit of a shock for me.
I was the one who invited him to our church. I picked him every week for Bible studies and church. We read and finished books together: Owen’s Mortifcation of Sin, Sinclair Ferguson’s Grow in Grace, etc. Books I told him to pick to go over. We talked about his interests in certain sisters he wanted to court, talk about his future, I paid for nearly all his meals when he was in Bible studies for years and it easily totaled thousands of dollars. In fact we met so regularly that he automatically assume his meal is paid for and never needed to ask nor say thank you; but strangely he was thinking that as his pastor I never met up with him.
I bring this up is to say it was shocking that he would meet up with me, to only say I never met up with him.
I didn’t let it slide and said I disagree and gave him the many examples of one on one time we had and he seem genuinely shocked. Surprised. And I dare say even foolish. He got silent and said he was wrong.
But afterwards he didn’t stop with his narrative about me.
He eventually sat down with me one last time and told me he didn’t understand anything from the Bible studies I taught over the last few months and said he need to leave. I gave my blessing.
I would have forgotten about it if it wasn’t for another pastor a few years down the road pointing out to me that this individual was online being passive aggressive and saying “why haven’t the Church ever taught on the complicated subject of X.” The other pastor asked me if during the time the guy was there at my church did I ever taught on that issue. I said yes. I reviewed, checked and saw I have sermon outlines on my hard drive and also the sermon was on Sermon Audio. I then recalled that I was actually dealing with that subject as a series during the time when this individual was saying he didn’t get anything from the BIble studies and need to go to another church. It was distressing to me to think when I met with him I often dumb things down, and perhaps I do go indepth in mid-week studies, but both was a problem for him. The whole thing left me scratching my head.
I don’t want to be the guy that thinks someone is not saved just because I disagree with them. But I share this is to make the observation that sometimes when I hear people say their former church never shared the Gospel to them I hesitate to believe them as eagerly as I once did before I met this guy. I think when people are not saved they can suppress the memory of the time when people shared the Gospel with them or other biblical truths. I know some might say nonbelievers might have simply forgotten; but in the case of the individual I mentioned it seems at times more is going on than simply forgetting, especially when they were in the thick of it with every activity at church. Now I do think sometimes the person’s other agenda blinded them. Here’s the danger of ulterior motive for going to church. But that spiritual blindness is also lies told not only to others but themselves so much that they start believing it and forgetting their motives. But even as they suppresses things, it never fully goes away and at times the truth confronting them of their spiritual condition, their true motives and their true state of affairs as well as how the believers truly love them is so overwhelming, they either repent to God or otherwise they go further down the rabbit hole. With the years of ministry I have to come to believe the most powerful and ironically the most scariest words a pastor can ever hear is “I’m sorry…” Most powerful because if they mean it from a contrite heart, its the work of God. Yet its the most scariest when their apologies aren’t real and yet they still struggle with guilt and shame, Satan can use that to lead such disturbed individuals to try to rationalize away them being the sinner and into the victim instead; and from victimehood Satan can open doors for them to do things that even nonbelievers are shocked by, and the police can even pause and shake their heads.
So with all this what does this have to do with us Christians serving the Lord? We must not ironically suppress the truth (even as we don’t want others to suppress the truth). We also must be real in that when we do ministry, ministry is hard and if what the Bible says about mankind is real, don’t be surprise at how dark ministry can get. Ministry requires us to have big hearts but thick skin; and don’t confuse that with hardened hearts and thin skin.
This is a very sad story Jim. The question is whether the memory loss is the work of Satan & his minions, the individual or, a mixture of both? I would tend to believe it is the last one; that unsaved individuals are vulnerable to the manipulation of evil sources in their memory and behaviour.
I think it is a combination of both as you pointed out. When I read your comment I thought about how the seed is taken away by the bird in Jesus’ parable. It seems Satan is at work. Blessings to you this weekend Alan!
But if, as Alan suggested, it is some of both, it could be that there are those who just enjoy feeding the birds.
I can’t help thinking Satan is not only messing with that man and all the people he’s told his lies to, but messing with you as well, trying to discourage you to the point of not even wanting to do ministry anymore. But the way I see it, you must be presenting a threat to the enemy if he’s taking such elaborate measures to bring you down. And that’s a compliment to you.
Only God can open someone’s eyes, and until He does, that person will only see what (s)he chooses to, or what the devil chooses to show them.
Keep up the good fight, and don’t let this frustrating experience dampen your zeal for serving others.
Blessings,
Annie
Wow! That is amazing. Head scratching really.
This is it: ” Ministry requires us to have big hearts but thick skin; and don’t confuse that with hardened hearts and thin skin.”
Shalom!
Your story Jim, sad for the individual, reminds me of my time in the faith movement, the name it and claim it, speaking in tongues cult.
These people I associated with and thought they were my brothers and sisters in Christ were living, as I was, in a lie. They seemed almost demon possessed, or at least was following Satan and not Christ.
It was as if they were living in a different reality, they lived in a delusion as your disciple you were describing.
Satan is the author of confusion, lies and deception.
I was miraculously brought out of that cult, the salvation by works religion. I met a pastor who taught me about the protestant reformation, Calvinism, Wesley and Christendom.
My eyes were opened to the false doctrines I was in for 6 years. I pray for your previous disciple for the Holy Ghost to draw him unto Him and know Christ, live Christ and make Christ known.
You are an encouragement to me Jim, thank you for sharing.
Thanks for your prayers Mike. Thanks for sharing your testimony too. God is gracious! Continue to be a light brother!
Hey, Jimmy! While I am not a pastor, I empathize. I am starting to understand the necessity of why we are told to shake the dust from our feet in certain situations and places. I agree with you on being hesitant to accept someone’s saying they never heard xyz sermons or the gospel etc. I have women I have mentored over the years say something similar and even if we do not go to the same church, it causes me to go through their church’s sermon database. God and those who know you, know how big of a pastoral heart you have, so while this is painful and difficult, God has and will continue to use this situation to teach you vital truths about ministry, both personally and to share with others. Praying for you, Mr Burton and youth today!!!!
Thanks for the heart felt comment. Indeed we gotta be careful and discerning with what others say. Thanks for your prayers with the youth today and for Mr Burton teaching! That means a lot. Is your mom still with you guys??
Yes, my mom is still with us! The 3 of us are going on vacation together for a few days, it’s gonna be really nice! I will still be at study on Tuesday! It’s such a joy to be with y’all!
Thanks for sharing. It sounds like this person has some mental health issues or is demon influenced or both. The mind is puzzling. I have also seen people passionately deny I told them something when I know 100% that I did and I remember they even made a comment about it.
My wife did say to me why I think the guy is a Christian when he end up doing the thing Satan wants with slander and lies. I still don’t know what to make of it years later. You are right in this fallen world people can passionately deny things that happen. Hope your shift goes well. Will next week with Memorial Day will there still be work next weekend?
Thanks, but no, we’re open next weekend. They’re shut down Sunday July 3 and I’m looking forward to having that day off.
Lots of insight here. I’ve had similar situations happen to me a few times. One time the guy was bi-polar and nothing I could do would convince him to take his meds. He ended up stealing from me (and my family) and I could not trust him from then on. I just noticed Tom’s comment above about a possible mental issue. I give this situation of yours a 75% chance of being just that. Mental situation or not, there is no excuse for lack of appreciation for assistance and theft. Until people like these realize their problems are mostly caused by themselves they will continue to make things difficult for others.
You might be right about this being a mental issue. In a fallen world we should be aware of things like that. You mentioned about a guy who was bi-polar. Our small church has a high number of special needs and mental health people. You mentioning about the bi-polar person reminded me of how I would try to plead with a guy to take his meds, and he kept on thinking taking meds was not trusting in God. When he was off his meds he was dangerous to himself and others. 2020 was not a good year for another person in our church with bipolar; isolation is a bad thing. I’m sorry the guy in your case stole for you. I trust that God sees what we do for the Lord with ministering to those who are quite frankly seen as the most difficult by our society. Blessings to you Chris!
I am so glad to know that you are a pastor who understands mental illness to a degree because none of us will ever understand it fully. It runs in my mom’s side of the family and my brother, an Air Force Academy graduate, has had problems for years and I am his legal guardian.
Some pastors always chalk mental illness up to demonic possession. I know that demon possession is real and I have a post about it on my blog. At the same time, some people are born with a genetic disposition. I know because after my brother got diagnosed with mental illness I began questioning and listening to stories about relatives who had died. I found out things that I never knew. My Grandma’s mother was institutionalized many years ago in a place I imagine looked like the one in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Next.” The same grandma’s sister had a mental illness as well but she was able to hold down a low stress job. The illness skipped my Mom’s generation and hit my generation hard. Almost all of my cousins on that side are on medication of sorts. The medications that we have today can work wonders but if someone has schizophrenia sometimes there is only a limited amount one can do. In my experience, many with mental illness are closer to God than the general public. My brother’s best companion is his Bible. He is not demon possessed.
I pray that God will continue to give you insight into the lives of the people you minister to and wisdom to know what to say and do in strange situations. Being a pastor in our times is a serious challenge and I pray that God will continue to bless your ministry greatly.
Thank you for your kind words, Pastor Jim.
Interesting. If I was guessing I would probably go with Tom’s suggestion. Heavy on seeking the Lord’s guidance on this one! Thanks for sharing! Blessings!
I think you are right about that. I know some of these issues you have more insights on. These are meant for us to trust in God and also seek the collective wisdom of others
Amen and Amen.
It sounds like mental health issues, my husband works for a Christian ministry and has had similar incidents over the years where Satan sends a particular individual who becomes a thorn in the flesh for a period of time. Never easy!
Wow thanks for sharing that. Is your husband still in ministry???
Yes he has been there many years. He is not a pastor but has a pastoral component to his role.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mark 4:15 KJV
What you described I would view as demonic influence requiring deliverance, but I suspect he needs to want deliverance for it to be effective. Best wishes on handling situations like this.
Thanks for being open and willing to share such a story. Sadly, I understand completely that scenario as I too, as an elder, had to walk through it as well. Exactly the same accusations, and yes, this person visited other churches and said much of the same to those pastors.
It is ironic that all the sermon uploads, all the class notes, and all the other people that were present at the times those topics were taught, stand powerfully as a witness against such a one and their false accusations.
I know you went through some hard spiritual and emotional times over it. It is not easy being falsely accused, in my case, with a long time friend.
But God is good and His grace is sufficient. Thanks for being a good soldier of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Wow I bet as a church elder you faced the same thing. I just prayed for your friend. I love how you noted the amount of sermon uploads, class notes and witnesses of believers testify to one preaching the Gospel but some people can still slander. Its sad and something is going on (mental issues, spiritual, and both). How long did that endured for when you were elder?
I think it was about two years till it came to the church exercising church discipline and removing him from membership. He was unrepentant and continued to cause issues with other local pastors.
The story is sad I think he has some mental problem all is God’s wish. Well shared 👌
Hmmm… I agree with the message of your article, Jim, but I also wonder if this case wasn’t physiological. Strokes can happen in varying degrees of severity, and they can cause changes in personality, memory, and emotion. Course, it could be that I’m still affected by spending a month as a roommate to someone who had a stroke. That, and my mother had a stroke as well.
So very sad…thrpe struggle is real! BUT GOD! So thankful God does not hold us accountable for the response but for our faithfulness…and you have been faithful.
And only what Scripture teaches matters.
II Tim. 2:15
Jesus was crucified to satisfy God with regard to sin so He may justly give everlasting life.
He gives eternal life to those upon whom He will have mercy.