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This is a guest post by Michael Coughlin who blogs at michaelcoughlin.net.

Receiving divine revelation has become so blasé that people who normally would affirm sola scriptura don’t even bat an eye when someone proposes to be hearing from God. Now I know a lot of people use various forms of language when describing their feelings or senses or intuitions, often ascribing revelatory meaning behind them unintentionally, but there are still many Christians today who believe God does, in fact, divinely reveal things to some folks apart from the Holy Scripture.

The following two anecdotes are opposite sides of the same coin which I hope will demonstrate the danger and seriousness of this kind of thinking and speaking, and show the illogic of at least some instances of people who claim spiritual gifts such as prophecy.

(more…)

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Prosperity Gospel

It is a problem all around the world that the church faces.  The Prosperity Gospel.  The Word of Faith movement.  It’s in Africa.  It’s in Eastern Europe.  It’s in Asia.  It’s in the West and imported overseas.

It is not the Gospel and it feeds our flesh.

It’s from Satan himself because it’s a false gospel.

Jason Vicente spoke against the Word of Faith in this message:

HT

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I hope you catch the irony with the title of today’s post.Perspective on the Worldwide Christian Movement

For a few months now I have been blogging about my concern with some of the disturbing trends with recent Christian missionary methodology.  One such concern I have is the fact that some seem to be against good reasoning.

An example of this can be seen in the case of C. Peter Wagner.  He is a former professor at Fuller Seminary’s School of World Missions (it has since been renamed the School of Intercultural Studies).  In a previous post I looked at some of the problem found in Wagner’s essay “On the Cutting Edge of Mission Strategy.

One of the things that Wagner said that I didn’t get to unpack in my previous post is Wagner’s view that Jesus prefer a demonstration of miraculous power rather than a”carefully reasoned argument” which he sees as a sign of Western “secularizing influence.”  I quote Wagner in his own words:

One of the more disturbing things we are beginning to discover is that, in more cases than we would care to think, our missionary messsage in the Third World has been having a secularizing influence.  I first realized this when I read an article by my colleague, Paul G. Hiebert, called ‘The Flaw of the Excluded Middle’ in 1982.  He begins the article by citing the question that John the Baptist had his disciples ask Jesus: ‘Are you the Coming One, or do we look for another?’ (Luke 7:20).  Hiebert emphasized that Jesus’ reply was not a carefully reasoned argument, but rather a demonstration of power in healing the sick and casting out of evil spirits” (Wagner, 581).

As one can see, Wagner came to his position through the writing of another professor at Fuller Seminary’s School of World Mission: Paul Hiebert.  The relevant quote that Wagner read is quoted below:

The disciples of Jesus asked Jesus, ‘Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another?’ (Luke 7:20 RSV).  Jesus answered, not with logical proofs, but by a demonstration of power in curing the sick and casting out evil spirits.   This much is clear.  Yet when I once read the passage from my perspective as a missionary in India and sought to apply it to missions in my day, I felt a sense of uneasiness.  As a Westerner, I was used to presenting Christ on the basis of rational arguments, but by evidences of his power in the lives of people who were sick, possessed and destitute” (Hiebert, 407).

Note how both Wagner and Hibert appealed to Luke 7:20.  Here is Luke 7:20-23 in context:

20 When the men came to Him, they said, “John the Baptist has sent us to You, to ask, ‘Are You the[o]Expected One, or do we look for someone else?’” 21 At that [p]very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind. 22 And He answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, thepoor have the gospel preached to them. 23 Blessed is he [q]who does not take offense at Me.”

There are problems with what these two Professors of Fuller Seminary has to say against “reason:”

  1. Wagner’s and Hiebert’s position is self-refuting in that they are both against carefully reasoned argument, and yet they end up trying to present what they think is a carefully reasoned argument for their position when they invoke Luke 7:20.  On the one hand they don’t think carefully reasoned arguments are legitimate but they inevitably presuppose the endeavor is legitimate when they try to set forth their reason against carefully reasoned argument.
  2. Wagner believes “carefully reasoned argument” is an example of Western missionary’s secularizing influence upon the Third World.  But this does not logically follow.  Wagner commit the logical fallacy of slippery slope when he thinks that carefully reasoned argument is going to lead one to become secularized.  This is not the case and portray a misunderstanding of what reasoning is on the part of Wagner; if one’s premises is not secularized but Biblically informed and “sanctified” then one will not become secularized in their conclusion.  Again, Wagner’s concern does not logically follow.
  3. It is important to exegete Luke 7:20-23 accurately.  Nowhere in the passage does Jesus condemn “presenting Christ on the basis of rational arguments” (to use Hiebert’s own words).
  4. In light of point 3, it must be pointed out that both Hiebert and Wagner commit the logical fallacy of a false dilemma when they present the option as either we accept Christ’s miracle as having evidential value or we accept rational arguments as having evidential value.  Why must a Christian accept either/or instead of both/and?
  5. We can agree with Hiebert and Wagner that Jesus’ purpose of performing miracles was to confirm the truth about the claims of Jesus Christ for as Hebrews 2:3-4 attests on the nature of signs, wonders and miracles: “how will we escape if we neglect so great asalvation?[d]After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various [e]miracles and by [f]gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.” (Hebrews 2:3-4)  But notice Jesus expected the right extrapolation of what the miracles mean and this proper interpretation of what does the evidence mean is act of engaging in reasoning.
  6. Point 5 enjoy further support from the immediate context in Luke 7 if one examine verse 22.  What Jesus told the disciples of John the Baptist is very significant since this is an echo of Isaiah 61:1 as presented in Luke 4:18.  Jesus description of what He is doing also should make His hearers think of Isaiah 26:19, 35:5-6.  This heavy use of Isaiah’s terms and phrases indicate that Jesus wants John to think Biblically in interpreting the evidence of Jesus’ miracles.  He is making an argument!  He is not merely arguing from miracles alone but bringing in Scripture to show that His miracles fulfill Messianic Prophecies.
  7. The most ironic thing about Wagner’s complaint that missionaries who use carefully reasoned arguments are “secularizing Third World Nations” is that it is those who are like him who are secularizing Third World Nations and not the ones who believed in the Sanctified Use of reason and argumentation, etc.  Note how Wagner thinks the performance of miracles are sanctified for the Christian but reasoning is not.  This is the same paradigm that secularists adopt when they separate the domain of God and the miraculous from the domain of “reason.”  Contrary to his claim, it is the Christian who do employ sanctified reasoning that is consistent in rejecting the dualism of secular/sacred.

Bibliography

Hiebert, Paul. 2009. “THe Flaw of the Excluded Middle.”Perspectives on the World Christian Movement. Ralph D. Winter and Steven C. Hawthorne, eds., 407-414.

Wagner, Charles Peter. 2009. “On the Cutting Edge of Missions Strategy.”Perspectives on the World Christian Movement. Ralph D. Winter and Steven C. Hawthorne, eds., 574-582.

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The Master's Seminary
John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference has definitely generated a lot of debate and discussion concerning the Charismatic movement.

It turns out that The Master’s Seminary, where John MacArthur presides over, has also done their annual Faculty Lecture Series also on the topic of “Strange Fire.”

Here are the videos!

 

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David_Yonggi_Cho_w_church_original

NOTE: We have written on the topic of “Strange Fire,” specifically the problems of Charismatic and Pentecostal Theology in the Asian context here on the blog in the past and will continue to do so from time to time in the future.

“Pastor” David Yonggi Cho is the founding pastor of the Yoido Full Gospel Church in the Assembly of God denomination and reputed as the world’s largest congregation.  There are concerns about his theology being biblical since he’s an advocate of Word of Faith teaching, among other things.

“Pastor” David Yonggi Cho was recently on the news this month, having gotten himself in legal trouble and found guilty by the court.  A Gospel Herald news article writes,

According to reports, Cho was identified as an accomplice through committing breach of trust in 2002 by ordering the church to purchase his elder son Hee-jun’s stocks at four times the market price. The transaction resulted in the church’s loss of 13 billion won (US$12 million). Moreover, Cho was also found guilty of tax evasion of 3.5 billion won (US$3.3 million). In the same ruling, Cho’s elder son Hee-jun, the former CEO of the church-affiliated local daily Kookmin Ilbo, was sentenced to three years in prison for colluding with his father in the embezzlement scheme.

Over at Charisma News, there’s even a piece titled Setting the Record Straight on David Yonggi Cho by a friend of his ministry for forty years that provides some more context, making the point that Pastor Cho was misled by his “prodigal” son.  I think it’s worth reading to see this situation as charitable as possible.

But even in the most charitable reading of this news there are legitimate concern from a biblically driven point of view especially with his ecclesiology and understanding of church office:

1.) Church buying stocks?  I think the church’s shouldn’t have it’s business in stocks in the first place.  One can see how a church driven by a prosperity message would be tempted to live out their pastor’s teaching and moves the church and the pastor stepping towards the direction of this scandal.

2.) The Charisma News piece is out to defend Cho by admitting this:

Cho has three sons. The second and third sons are very productive and work in church-related ministries. His eldest son has been the prodigal. He has been married four times and has been involved in sexual scandals with national personalities. In addition, he has served prison time for investment scams and embezzlement. His scandalized life has been an embarrassment to his family and the church.

I think this open up a whole can of worm.  Don’t forget the qualification for an elder/pastor in 1 Timothy 3:4-5,

“4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),”

Biblically speaking, “Pastor” Cho isn’t qualified to be a pastor; or if he was qualified he has disqualified himself beforehand.  I imagine it’s very hard to remove a charismatic, “successful” pastor on pragmatic grounds no matter what theological stripes you come from, but it must be even more difficult among Charistmatic circles with their ecclesiological baggage of a man of God being “anointed,” having special insights, revelation, etc., that gives more immunity than it is healthy.

3.) The Charisma News piece also mentioned that this “prodigal” son approached the dad with his dad’s choice elders to sign the paper work that got him in the quagmire.  It’s important to avoid appearance of evil–and that means family business and church funds shouldn’t mix in the first place.

4.) One can’t help but to wonder about the role of prosperity Gospel in all this.  In Cho’s book, Prayer that Brings Revival, he wrote “The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available for the asking. Healing, deliverance,  prosperity, and blessing are all to be asked for” (75).  With an unbiblical understanding of church leadership coupled with a wealthy church, a bad ecclesiology, and a prosperity gospel, you’re ASKING for this scandal.

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strangefire

In light of the Strange Fire Conference, we just completed our mini series focused on the problem of Charismatic excess/Prosperity Gospel influence in Asia.  The following are the links not only from the past two weeks but also over the years on Veritas Domain.  Lord willing, if we were to write more on this topic we will put the links on here as well.

Foundational

Why will we focus our apologetics on Prosperity Gospel/Charistmatic Excess?

The Prosperity Gospel’s Functional Idol and its fruit

Kong Hee and City Harvest Church

Incorrect: Kong Hee say we love God because of what we can give him

Sun Ho the Pastor’s Wife or the Pastor’s Ho?

Jaeson Ma

Jaeson Ma’s New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) roots

Jaeson Ma: False Prophet about Los Angeles 2006?

Keeping ‘Prophets’ Accountable: Jaeson Ma on Korea Revival by 2021

Frequent Objections defending Jaeson Ma Answered

A Closer look at another defense of Jaeson Ma’s False Prophecy

Jaeson Ma: Epitome of the unbiblical Hipster and ‘Celebrity’ Pastor

Jaeson Ma’s New Song “Rise and Fall” is heretical  NEW!

  NEW!

Joseph Prince and New Creation Church

David Yonggi Cho Guitly and  Yoido Full Gospel Church

“Pastor” David Yonggi Cho Guitly, another case of Strange Fire in Asia     NEW!

Related

October Links Related to Strange Fire and the Charismatic

Aftermath of Strange Fire    NEW!

Review of    NEW!

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Joseph Prince false teacher

We continue with our closer look at Joseph Prince’s arguments for his position that every Christians should speak in tongues.  For those who may not know, Joseph Prince is a Pentecostal preacher from Singapore, who’s popularity is felt not only in Asia but even here in the United States.

The video we have been examining is this particular clip from Joseph Prince’s channel:

Eight seconds into the video he tries to argue that it is biblical for Christians to ask other Christians whether they speak in tongues, implying that believers should speak in tongues:

One time the Apostle Paul passed by a group of people and he asked them, ‘Have you received the Holy Ghost?’  And the Bible says they were disciples, they were believers in Christ.  ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit?’ he asked them.  Now, today that is not the question we ask people after we see that they are saved.  We don’t asked them, ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit?’ because it is insulting to many “denominations” to suggest that, to ask the question ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit?’ is insulting.  Yet I think it is in Acts 16, or 19…and in Acts 19 when you look at it the Bible says that Paul passed by a certain region and then he found disciples.  The word there is disciples.  These are believers in Christ.  Christians.  And he asked them the question, ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?’  So they said, “We never heard of anything called the Holy Spirit.’  ‘So unto what baptism were you baptized?’ “John’s baptism.’  Well Jesus said what?  You will be baptized by the Holy Spirit.  And the Bible says that he prayed for them, laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit and the Bible says what was the evidence for those of you on the page?  They spoke with tongues and prophesied, right?  So we don’t want to compromise just because some denominations are of the persuasion that tongues has ceased alright, we don’t want to compromise because our standard is the Bible.  Can I get a good Amen?”

(0:08-1:35)

Joseph Prince is appealing to Acts 19.  Let’s take a closer look:

1.) Prince makes much out of the point that its to “disciples” (verse 1) that Paul asked his question “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”  (verse 2).  Specifically though, these disciples were those of John the Baptist since they didn’t know about the Holy Spirit (verse 2) and only knew about John’s baptism (verse 3).  This observation should make us cautious in assuming these are regular New Testament Church era Christians.

2.) In light of the fact that they were John’s disciples who only knew up to the baptism of repentance and never even heard about the Holy Spirit, one must be sensitive to progressive revelation and how redemptive history unfolds.  This particular episode is unique in that as the church began and started from Acts 2 onward, there were a number of believers who were disciples before hearing about the Holy Spirit such as John’s Disciples.  Yet by God’s providence the Lord brought those like the Apostle Paul to fill them in about the Spirit.  We expect that as the book of Acts progress, with the church growing more and more, that the number of such disciples of John who didn’t know about the Spirit would decrease.  When we fast forward to today, there are not John’s disciples who haven’t heard of the Holy Spirit.

Thus, if one is sensitive to the context, Acts 19 is not a text to justify asking other Christians whether they have the Holy Spirit and implying that they should speak in tongues.

Don’t forget also how earlier in part two we established the biblical truth that baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as speaking in tongues, since one can be baptized by the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues.

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I have not heard of Joseph Prince before our mini-series focusing on popular leaders of the Charismatic movement in the Asian scene.  Our other blogger, EvangelZ, was the one who told me about him and how I should look him up.  It seems like he is a Charismatic prosperity gospel preacher with a big church in Singapore call New Creation Church.  His popularity is beyond Asia, and even here in the US.

Joseph Prince false teacher

His ministry uploaded a clip on Youtube from his sermon titled “Tongues–The Key To A Spirit-Led Life.”

The purpose of his message is clear:

Speaking in tongues make you supernatural.  So that is the prayer language that every believer should have.” (8:05-8:13).

He believes Christians SHOULD speak in tongues.  But in order to make his argument, he has to make two assumptions necessary for his case:

  • Speaking in tongues is not the same thing as the gift of tongues.
  • Those baptized in the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues.

In this post we will focus only on the first premise, that speaking in tongues is not the same thing as the gift of tongues.  Joseph Prince articulates and argue for this distinction between speaking in tongues and the gift in tongues seven minutes into the clip, saying:

So the biggest problem, the body of Christ today is that Charismatics who is baptized in the Spirit see it as a sign, alright, that they are baptized and that’s it but they don’t exercise the gift.  Now, many a times they exercise the gift when they come to church.  And that was the problem in the church of Corinth where Paul wrote trying to control of the gift of tongues.  Now gift of tongues, not everybody has the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14, 12 and all that, where it talks about where you don’t have an interpreter, keep quiet.  Now that’s the gift of tongues.  All of us have the sign that Jesus said in Mark and this sign will follow those that believed, alright?  One of the signs is that they shall speak with new tongues.  Our Lord Jesus said that.  This sign will follow the believers.  Didn’t say pastors.  Believers.  Didn’t say Apostles and prophets.  Believers.  One of the biggest sign is what?  They shall speak with new tongues.” (7:01-7:58)

So while “not everybody has the gift of tongues,” Joseph Prince believes that the Bible teaches all believers “shall speak with new tongues.’

Joseph Prince might say this distinction parallel evangelism and giving:

  1. While some have the spiritual gift of giving (Romans 12:8), yet all believers are commanded to give (Romans 12:13, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, 2 Corinthians 9:6-7, etc).
  2. While some have the spiritual gift of evangelism(Ephesians 4:11), yet all believers are commanded to evangelize/witness (Matthew 28:19-20, 1 Peter 3:15, etc).

Spiritual gifts will differ from individual to individual (Romans 12:6) but that doesn’t mean if we don’t have the spiritual gift of evangelism or giving that we cease giving and witnessing.

But does this distinction applies to the issue of speaking in tongues?  It doesn’t seem likely.  Note that in order for the gift/general function distinction to apply, it is necessary that God’s Word gives a command to believers in general to practice it.  While God does tells believers in general to witness and give, there are no imperative verbs in the New Testament ordering believers to speak in tongues.  Thus, Joseph Prince is not biblically warranted to make such the distinction between spiritual gift and practice of tongues.

However, Joseph Prince does attempt to show from the Bible that all believers should speak in tongues.  Recall how in the quote above he said, “All of us have the sign that Jesus said in Mark and this sign will follow those that believed, alright?  One of the signs is that they shall speak with new tongues.”  That passage in Mark in Mark 16:17, which says

These [d]signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues

As Prince stated, here in verse 17 it says “those who have believed,” and not just a subset of believers such as Pastors, apostles, etc.

But there are two good reasons why Mark 16:17 doesn’t support Prince’s cause.

First off, there is an issue of textual criticism with the end of Mark 16, in which verse 9 and following is disputed to be part of the original since many of the older and reliable manuscripts does not attests to anything beyond verse 8.  I myself believe the Gospel of Mark ends in Mark 16:8.

Secondly, even if we assume Mark 16:17 is part of the Greek autograph and therefore is legitimately part of God’s Word, this still doesn’t help with Joseph Prince’s cause.  I believe that the context of the immediate verse in Mark 16:18 strongly imply that we see a limitation of Mark 16:17 applying universally to all believers at all time.  Note verse 18 states:

 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

I would not want to see Joseph Prince pick up dangerous serpents and drink poison today.  If he believes that there are some exclusion to verse 18 being the case today, then I would say that to be consistent the context strongly demands an exclusion for the application of verse 17 for today also.  Thus Mark 16:17 does not provide (1) the warrant for Joseph Prince to assert that all believers are obligated to speak in tongues, (2) nor that which is necessary to establish the distinction of the gift of tongues and the act of tongues.

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jaesonma

We have written in the past concerning the Charismatic preacher turned Music Artist Jaeson Ma.  Although Jaeson Ma is no longer actively pastoring, he still preaches though it seems that he has been focusing more on his career with entertainment in the Asian and Asian American market than pastoring.

I think one cannot understand Jaeson Ma without understand the root that is driving his theology and specifically of his root with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).

On the Elijah List, a website that collects Charistmatic and Third Wave types of “prophecies,” one find that Cindy Jacob’s claim of Jaeson Ma as a “son in the Lord”:

Cindy Jacobs: God Says: “I Want My People to Pray In a New Pentecost that will Sweep the Face of the Earth”
by Cindy Jacobs
Apr 15, 2010

On December 31, 2009, the Holy Spirit spoke through me and said, “I’m going to shake the earth. You will begin to see earthquakes—I am going to shake everything that can be shaken. Look where the earthquakes are hitting because God is going to release a wind of Pentecost in those places.”


Another place of shaking was Los Angeles, California. Jaeson Ma, my son in the Lord…

Accessed here: http://www.elijahlist.com/words/html/textonly-041510-Jacobs.html

Cindy Jacobs is herself a false prophet.  That has been documented by Sandy Simpson and another example of her failed predication can also be seen here.

So in dealing with Jaeson Ma’s theology, one must come to grasp and refute the New Apostolic Reformation.  Check out the following link with many helpful articles HERE.

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Among other things, John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference has touched on the false teachings of the Prosperity Gospel.  It’s influence among Charistmatic circles is huge.  Known as the Word of Faith/Name-it-Claim-it/Blab-it-Grab-it theology, the impact of such teachings has dangerous spiritual repercussions and even at it’s best is a distraction from the Gospel (though I would add that its focus on the wrong things actually undermine the message and priority of the Gospel).

Over the years we have documented on our blog some of the dangerous fruits of Third Wave Continuationists and the Prosperity Gospel; and the fruits are not pretty.

I’m convinced that at the root of the problem with the Prosperity Gospel is the issue of idolatry.  That is, it’s an issue of who it is that is one’s God.  The functional god of those who are preachers and “parishioners” of the Prosperity Gospel is not the God of the Bible: it is the idolatry of the Self.  Let me explain with this illustration:

Idol of Prosperity Gospel Preacher

Until one identifies the root that’s driving the bad fruits, one can’t fully repent from the Prosperity Gospel since they don’t know what they must be turning away from.

The prosperity Gospel appeal to the carnal self.  It is all about pleasing the self and seeking gains for the pleasures of the self.  As a result, one shouldn’t be surprise to see the following fruits:

1.) An Emphasis on Subjective “Spiritual” Experiences versus the Word of God.  It’s experience-based rather than expositionally-based upon the Word of God.   And within Charismatic Word of Faith paradigm, the more supernatural the experience supposedly is, the better.  It becomes almost like a drug, an addiction to the spiritual experience itself rather than God Himself.  For some, one goes on religious roller coasters, where most of their life is in a spiritual slump until they wait for the next big high.  I believe that most of today’s speaking in tongues, getting slain in the spirit, holy laughter, “prophesying,” visions and “healing” spawn from this.  This also explains why so many false prophecies made in Pentecostal circles often are forgotten by those who hear them, because they are already looking for the next fixing for their veins of new “word” or predictions.

2.) Prosperity Gospel.  Having it’s mooring away from the Bible, advocates and believers of the Prosperity Gospel now have their discernment down.  With the idol of the self, a message of health and wealth appeals to their carnal wishes.  It tickles their ears.  Plus it’s about experiences and the experiences of the here and now-so why can’t we have the best of our life now?  Oh, should one also be surprise at tales of corruption behind the profits of prophets of the Prosperity Gospel?

3.) Infatuation of entering the entertainment industry.  Having now become materially driven, one now wants to be as successful in acquiring prosperity as they possibly can reach for.  For the best of the best in the circles of Prosperity Gospel, the sky is the limit but practically the sky is Hollywood:  think of what other industry brings the greatest fame, recognition and temptation of riches and luxury?  So with the supposed cover of wanting to reach out to Hollywood for Christ on a bigger platform, worldly methods and values are adopted in order to be part of the missionary effort to the entertainment industry and worldly goals and measure of success are adopted as well.  All this, while a bit of generic non-confrontational spiritual “Christian-ese” is sprinkled in one’s twitter and Facebook page, packaged for the mass amount of consumption possible.  Matter fact, often times prosperity preachers began small, who in desiring to be famous for being famous, they see twitter and other social media as the training wheels for developing fans responding to their selfies.

4.) Sexual immorality.  It can begin “innocent” enough with little efforts at mimicking the entertainment industry.  Or what you wear to indicate your prosperity by their fashion.  But if you are already feeding the Gods of self by appeasing it’s appetite of health and wealth, and fame and game, why hold back and be tame when it comes to sex?  Should we be surprise at why preachers of prosperity gospel have such heinous reputation of sexual immorality?

Don’t we see this being true at level three or four with those who are in the show Preachers of L.A., Kong Hee, Sun Ho and Jaeson Ma?

If any one sees this as a description of themselves, and God is convicting them, be warned by the Apostle Paul in Phillipians 3:19:

Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.”

See your sins for what they are, repent, surrender yourself so that Jesus would be the Lord and Savior of your life.  Jesus Christ has died on the Cross and His blood is the source of our forgiveness.  Have truth faith in God’s grace alone through Christ alone to save us.

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I grieve writing this post and it brings me no pleasure.

Pastor-Kong-Hee-wife

Yesterday I wrote a post concerning a major bad point of the theology of Kong Hee, a famous prosperity Gospel preacher in Singapore who is now facing legal trouble for inappropriate use of church funds.  Today I want to focus my post more on where he spent the stolen church money that reveals more of where he and his wife is at spiritually.  According to the UK newspaper Daily Mail, reportedly the Singapore megachurch founder was ‘stealing more than $40million to fund his wife’s American pop star dream’

Kong Hee’s wife is name Sun Ho.  What is the fruit of her American pop star dream?

This carnal music video.  (WARNING: INAPPROPRIATE)

And videos like it.

I hesitated posting this video, after all I have managed to blog about Miley Cryus without posting any pictures on here.  Here we have a Pastor’s wife who publicly display herself more like Miley Cyrus than a Biblical portrait of a Godly Woman.  I couldn’t bring myself to finishing this video, it’s that bad in terms of visual content, message, lyrics, musically and vocally.  It is aesthetically unpleasing.  It’s ironic that her video is about a women who’s enslave to serving her lover and the celebration of a woman’s freedom from the whim of a depraved male lover BUT the visual content of the video  wouldundermine that very message when Sun Ho the Pastor’s wife has to be enslaved to the lust of the World by protraying herself as an objectified woman, a woman who says she holds to the standard of the world’s beauty (with it’s sexual innuendo) rather than the standard of God.

And from what both Kong Hee and Sun Ho publicly states, they think their entrance into Hollywood is a good thing for the cause of God’s Kingdom!

But there is nothing of Christ, the Gospel or Christ-like being communicated in her music video.  Not with the B-Word used in the music video.  Not with Sun Ho the Pastor Wife acting like the pun of her last name.

Heed the Word of Paul in Ephesians 5:6-11:

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes uponthe sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9 (for the fruit of the Lightconsists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 [f]trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even [g]expose them;

We ought not to walk in darkness or imitate ourselves like those in darkness.  We ought to expose it as Ephesians 5:11 teaches.

Stay tune for tommorow’s post on the topic of the functional idol of Charistmatic Prosperity Gospel preachers which will provide a Biblical paradigm to understand the modern Charistmatic Prosperity preachers and their fruits.

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After yesterday’s post on Kim Clement, I discovered that others have also exposed him elsewhere on the internet.  I thought I post this for those who might have google searched this and find this helpful.

1.) Forgotten Word website documents some of Kim Clement’s False Prophecies: http://www.forgottenword.org/clement.html

2.) Slaughter the Sheep’s WordPress posts: http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/tag/kim-clement/

3.) Let Us Reason Ministries 2 Part series: http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac14.htm and http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac15.htm

4.) Kim Clement admits he is a false prophet: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/08/01/kim-clement-admits-he-is-a-false-prophet/

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I’ve been digging through the archives of a Prophetic website.  There’s a guy name Kim Clement who is a “Prophet.”  He made a prophecy about 2005 which can be read here: http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/2969.  Besides bad doctrine, this guy claims to speak from the LORD but his prophecy reveals that he is a false prophet more than anything.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I’ve reproduced it here below:

January 30, 2005- Oklahoma City, OK: August, September, and October are going to be very wonderful in terms of the economy. There’s going to be a huge breakthrough God has planned and set aside.

And this is what the Lord said to me, “Because you have chosen the man that I wanted to be in the White House, and America had a choice, I will cause the next four years to be the greatest and to bring in the greatest harvest that the United States of America has ever seen in its centuries of history. In a four-year period there is going to be the greatest harvest. And I’m not talking about Asia. I’m not talking about Africa. I’m talking about this nation!”Schools, colleges, universities, the legal system, children . . . every one of them are going to be unbelievably revived. That is happening because there is a man in the Oval Office that God chose to watch over this nation. He is the watchman over the United States of America. “I’ve raised up a watchman. I’ve raised up a doorkeeper, a housekeeper. I’ve raised up somebody that’s going to watch over. He’s called the Gatekeeper of America. This man that you put in the White House, whether some of you agree with him or not, shall pray, and there will be four years of the greatest harvest that America has ever seen.”

Atheism Destroyed

Between August, September, and October there is a window open for families in America for atheism to be destroyed, for legalism to be destroyed, and for religion to be destroyed.

Life Span of Man

The age of man — the normal death age — will be 100 years of age, Bob Hope being the example of this.Twins

This will be a generation to bring forth more twins than any other because of the abortions that have taken place. God is putting double in the womb, so we have double trouble for the powers of hell!

Double Portion in 2005

“The earth is Mine. In 2004, the enemy came in and illegally stole in a year that I had purposed for great breakthrough. Now, because he did that to you, your families, your businesses, your homes, your finances, and your ministries, now I am in the position to pay you back with a double portion of what you were supposed to receive that year! So, not only do you have double trouble, but you have a double anointing, a double prosperity. You have a double power. You have double authority. You have a double of everything that was stolen from you — it’s yours this year. “And,” God says, “there is an abundance coming upon this house and upon this people. Rejoice as the prophet prophesies. It’s yours!”

CLAIM 1: Economic Breakthrough in August-October 2011

Kim Clement claims:

August, September, and October are going to be very wonderful in terms of the economy. There’s going to be a huge breakthrough God has planned and set aside.”

There is nothing of a huge breakthrough in terms of the economy in August-October 2005.

Note the GDP growth chart:

(Source; cf. this other source as well)

Would you say there is anything different in the last quarter of 2005 (which September and October fall under)?

If one expect some major economic breakthrough in August, September and October 2005 why do we find that economic reports stating problems in these areas:

* Short-Term Credit Measures (August 2005 SGS);
* Income Variance/Dispersion (September 2005 SGS);
* Consumer Price Index (an original background article and October 2005 SGS); (SOURCE)

CLAIM 2: Greatest harvest in 2005-2009

Kim Clement claims:

And this is what the Lord said to me, “Because you have chosen the man that I wanted to be in the White House, and America had a choice, I will cause the next four years to be the greatest and to bring in the greatest harvest that the United States of America has ever seen in its centuries of history. In a four-year period there is going to be the greatest harvest. And I’m not talking about Asia. I’m not talking about Africa. I’m talking about this nation!”

And,

and there will be four years of the greatest harvest that America has ever seen.

It does not seem that the four period of 2005-2009 would go down in church history as the largest harvests of souls coming to Jesus in light of centuries of Christian history nor of American Christian history.

CLAIM 3: Unbelievable Social institutional Revival

Kim Clement claims:

Schools, colleges, universities, the legal system, children . . . every one of them are going to be unbelievably revived. That is happening because there is a man in the Oval Office that God chose to watch over this nation.

Whatever revival there is with the institution of schools, colleges and the legal system…it was not at an “unbelievable” level.  There is so much that is not true of these institution, they are just as worldly and humanistic today as it was before 2005.

CLAIM 4: Life Span will be at 100

Kim Clement claims:

The age of man — the normal death age — will be 100 years of age, Bob Hope being the example of this. In the past I’ve always thought some people have been too hard on Charistmatics and Pentecostals.  But I’m realizing that in terms of apologetics as Christians we also need to “clean” our own backyard if we are going to give a full defense of the faith and also separate Biblical truth from plain old silliness.  There’s false prophecies being made again and again.  It’s time that these guys get exposed because they do not speak for God.

Did this come true in 2005?  According to the National Census study, the average life expectancy in 2005 was 77.4 years.  In 2004, it was 77.5.  Rather than going up to 100 years, there was instead a decrease in life expectancy!  See the Census data for yourself by clicking HERE.

CONCLUSION

This guy is a false prophet.  If you follow him, now is the time to stop and stick to the Bible and His revelation in the Word of God about Jesus Christ and the Gospel.  Don’t look for subjective feelings and excitement about “prophecies” instead of the truth that has already been revealed from God’s Word.  Study the doctrines of God and it’s implication for living in loving obedience to Him instead of one prophetic hype to the next.

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ElijahList, what use to be an email list of prophetic word has grown to a full fledged website and feature prophetic statements online.

I saw this and I couldn’t help but to make an observation from a 2008 post they had:

Steve Shultz: ElijahRain Magazine Contains Prophetic Content That We Don’t Publish On The ElijahList. Order, Renew, or Give a Gift Version TODAY!

The original title can be seen HERE.

What blew my mind is how this Prophetic magazine can advertise by saying it contain prophetic content that “we don’t publish on the Elijahlist.”  THen it tells readers to purchase it.

I don’t recall the last time a prophet in the Bible charged people to hear new revelation from God.  Do you?

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Over at Teampyro, Phil Johnson has posted two great blogposts that’s actually from the past.  Having read both of them this week, I thought they were great…among the best posts I’ve read from Teampyro.  Especially the second post about how Charismatic doctrines itself poses risks of Christian gullibility and downgrade Christian discernment.

Here they are:

1.) If you can’t say something nice…

2.) Should Type-R Charismatics Get a Free Pass?

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