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Archive for the ‘charistmatic chaos’ Category

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This is a guest post by Michael Coughlin who blogs at michaelcoughlin.net.

Receiving divine revelation has become so blasé that people who normally would affirm sola scriptura don’t even bat an eye when someone proposes to be hearing from God. Now I know a lot of people use various forms of language when describing their feelings or senses or intuitions, often ascribing revelatory meaning behind them unintentionally, but there are still many Christians today who believe God does, in fact, divinely reveal things to some folks apart from the Holy Scripture.

The following two anecdotes are opposite sides of the same coin which I hope will demonstrate the danger and seriousness of this kind of thinking and speaking, and show the illogic of at least some instances of people who claim spiritual gifts such as prophecy.

(more…)

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Prosperity Gospel

It is a problem all around the world that the church faces.  The Prosperity Gospel.  The Word of Faith movement.  It’s in Africa.  It’s in Eastern Europe.  It’s in Asia.  It’s in the West and imported overseas.

It is not the Gospel and it feeds our flesh.

It’s from Satan himself because it’s a false gospel.

Jason Vicente spoke against the Word of Faith in this message:

HT

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The Master's Seminary
John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference has definitely generated a lot of debate and discussion concerning the Charismatic movement.

It turns out that The Master’s Seminary, where John MacArthur presides over, has also done their annual Faculty Lecture Series also on the topic of “Strange Fire.”

Here are the videos!

 

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David_Yonggi_Cho_w_church_original

NOTE: We have written on the topic of “Strange Fire,” specifically the problems of Charismatic and Pentecostal Theology in the Asian context here on the blog in the past and will continue to do so from time to time in the future.

“Pastor” David Yonggi Cho is the founding pastor of the Yoido Full Gospel Church in the Assembly of God denomination and reputed as the world’s largest congregation.  There are concerns about his theology being biblical since he’s an advocate of Word of Faith teaching, among other things.

“Pastor” David Yonggi Cho was recently on the news this month, having gotten himself in legal trouble and found guilty by the court.  A Gospel Herald news article writes,

According to reports, Cho was identified as an accomplice through committing breach of trust in 2002 by ordering the church to purchase his elder son Hee-jun’s stocks at four times the market price. The transaction resulted in the church’s loss of 13 billion won (US$12 million). Moreover, Cho was also found guilty of tax evasion of 3.5 billion won (US$3.3 million). In the same ruling, Cho’s elder son Hee-jun, the former CEO of the church-affiliated local daily Kookmin Ilbo, was sentenced to three years in prison for colluding with his father in the embezzlement scheme.

Over at Charisma News, there’s even a piece titled Setting the Record Straight on David Yonggi Cho by a friend of his ministry for forty years that provides some more context, making the point that Pastor Cho was misled by his “prodigal” son.  I think it’s worth reading to see this situation as charitable as possible.

But even in the most charitable reading of this news there are legitimate concern from a biblically driven point of view especially with his ecclesiology and understanding of church office:

1.) Church buying stocks?  I think the church’s shouldn’t have it’s business in stocks in the first place.  One can see how a church driven by a prosperity message would be tempted to live out their pastor’s teaching and moves the church and the pastor stepping towards the direction of this scandal.

2.) The Charisma News piece is out to defend Cho by admitting this:

Cho has three sons. The second and third sons are very productive and work in church-related ministries. His eldest son has been the prodigal. He has been married four times and has been involved in sexual scandals with national personalities. In addition, he has served prison time for investment scams and embezzlement. His scandalized life has been an embarrassment to his family and the church.

I think this open up a whole can of worm.  Don’t forget the qualification for an elder/pastor in 1 Timothy 3:4-5,

“4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),”

Biblically speaking, “Pastor” Cho isn’t qualified to be a pastor; or if he was qualified he has disqualified himself beforehand.  I imagine it’s very hard to remove a charismatic, “successful” pastor on pragmatic grounds no matter what theological stripes you come from, but it must be even more difficult among Charistmatic circles with their ecclesiological baggage of a man of God being “anointed,” having special insights, revelation, etc., that gives more immunity than it is healthy.

3.) The Charisma News piece also mentioned that this “prodigal” son approached the dad with his dad’s choice elders to sign the paper work that got him in the quagmire.  It’s important to avoid appearance of evil–and that means family business and church funds shouldn’t mix in the first place.

4.) One can’t help but to wonder about the role of prosperity Gospel in all this.  In Cho’s book, Prayer that Brings Revival, he wrote “The gifts of the Holy Spirit are available for the asking. Healing, deliverance,  prosperity, and blessing are all to be asked for” (75).  With an unbiblical understanding of church leadership coupled with a wealthy church, a bad ecclesiology, and a prosperity gospel, you’re ASKING for this scandal.

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strangefire

In light of the Strange Fire Conference, we just completed our mini series focused on the problem of Charismatic excess/Prosperity Gospel influence in Asia.  The following are the links not only from the past two weeks but also over the years on Veritas Domain.  Lord willing, if we were to write more on this topic we will put the links on here as well.

Foundational

Why will we focus our apologetics on Prosperity Gospel/Charistmatic Excess?

The Prosperity Gospel’s Functional Idol and its fruit

Kong Hee and City Harvest Church

Incorrect: Kong Hee say we love God because of what we can give him

Sun Ho the Pastor’s Wife or the Pastor’s Ho?

Jaeson Ma

Jaeson Ma’s New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) roots

Jaeson Ma: False Prophet about Los Angeles 2006?

Keeping ‘Prophets’ Accountable: Jaeson Ma on Korea Revival by 2021

Frequent Objections defending Jaeson Ma Answered

A Closer look at another defense of Jaeson Ma’s False Prophecy

Jaeson Ma: Epitome of the unbiblical Hipster and ‘Celebrity’ Pastor

Jaeson Ma’s New Song “Rise and Fall” is heretical  NEW!

  NEW!

Joseph Prince and New Creation Church

David Yonggi Cho Guitly and  Yoido Full Gospel Church

“Pastor” David Yonggi Cho Guitly, another case of Strange Fire in Asia     NEW!

Related

October Links Related to Strange Fire and the Charismatic

Aftermath of Strange Fire    NEW!

Review of    NEW!

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Joseph Prince false teacher

We continue with our closer look at Joseph Prince’s arguments for his position that every Christians should speak in tongues.  For those who may not know, Joseph Prince is a Pentecostal preacher from Singapore, who’s popularity is felt not only in Asia but even here in the United States.

The video we have been examining is this particular clip from Joseph Prince’s channel:

Eight seconds into the video he tries to argue that it is biblical for Christians to ask other Christians whether they speak in tongues, implying that believers should speak in tongues:

One time the Apostle Paul passed by a group of people and he asked them, ‘Have you received the Holy Ghost?’  And the Bible says they were disciples, they were believers in Christ.  ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit?’ he asked them.  Now, today that is not the question we ask people after we see that they are saved.  We don’t asked them, ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit?’ because it is insulting to many “denominations” to suggest that, to ask the question ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit?’ is insulting.  Yet I think it is in Acts 16, or 19…and in Acts 19 when you look at it the Bible says that Paul passed by a certain region and then he found disciples.  The word there is disciples.  These are believers in Christ.  Christians.  And he asked them the question, ‘Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?’  So they said, “We never heard of anything called the Holy Spirit.’  ‘So unto what baptism were you baptized?’ “John’s baptism.’  Well Jesus said what?  You will be baptized by the Holy Spirit.  And the Bible says that he prayed for them, laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit and the Bible says what was the evidence for those of you on the page?  They spoke with tongues and prophesied, right?  So we don’t want to compromise just because some denominations are of the persuasion that tongues has ceased alright, we don’t want to compromise because our standard is the Bible.  Can I get a good Amen?”

(0:08-1:35)

Joseph Prince is appealing to Acts 19.  Let’s take a closer look:

1.) Prince makes much out of the point that its to “disciples” (verse 1) that Paul asked his question “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”  (verse 2).  Specifically though, these disciples were those of John the Baptist since they didn’t know about the Holy Spirit (verse 2) and only knew about John’s baptism (verse 3).  This observation should make us cautious in assuming these are regular New Testament Church era Christians.

2.) In light of the fact that they were John’s disciples who only knew up to the baptism of repentance and never even heard about the Holy Spirit, one must be sensitive to progressive revelation and how redemptive history unfolds.  This particular episode is unique in that as the church began and started from Acts 2 onward, there were a number of believers who were disciples before hearing about the Holy Spirit such as John’s Disciples.  Yet by God’s providence the Lord brought those like the Apostle Paul to fill them in about the Spirit.  We expect that as the book of Acts progress, with the church growing more and more, that the number of such disciples of John who didn’t know about the Spirit would decrease.  When we fast forward to today, there are not John’s disciples who haven’t heard of the Holy Spirit.

Thus, if one is sensitive to the context, Acts 19 is not a text to justify asking other Christians whether they have the Holy Spirit and implying that they should speak in tongues.

Don’t forget also how earlier in part two we established the biblical truth that baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as speaking in tongues, since one can be baptized by the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues.

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Jaeson Ma Aziatix controversy

Earlier I wrote a post identifying the fruits of Prosperity Gospel and extreme Charistmatics preachers and how it reveals their functional idol.   Among the “fruits” mentioned is an infatuation of trying to enter the entertainment industry.   I think the preachers in the reality show, “Preachers of LA,” is an example of my thesis and another case study is the anti-nominian, false prophet and Pastor Jaeson Ma.

Although Jaeson Ma retains the title “Pastor” (see this video of him in Malaysia), he has been spending most of his time being a musical artist.  And for Jaeson Ma that means hanging out with artists, music industry reps and insiders.  Of course, there is nothing wrong in of itself reaching out to people who are lost and being their companions so long as one doesn’t compromise their belief and behavior before the Lord.  Has Jaeson Ma been above reproach?  Here I am not merely trying to catch him on a “slip-up,” a moment of weakness when he fails to be consistent to the standard he holds to;  rather, I’m trying to ask a more foundational question, of whether it is biblical with his particular approach in associating with those in the Asian entertainment industry?  I’m more concern about the method driving him than an inconsistency to one’s method since after all, we are all prone to sin and deviate from our professed standard.

One such association (among many) that Jaeson has is with the group Aziatix.  Note Jaeson Ma’s facebook:

Here I quote again what Jaeson Ma wrote just in case the picture on facebook disappear:

Ones up to the sky with @aziatixallday at their new music video shoot single produced by @redone_official They are the first Asian American group signed to @ymcmbofficial (Young Money) and they didn’t get here by chance these four brothers got here by faith. Faith is spelled R.I.S.K. & I saw how each of these men risked it all to follow God and start @aziatix this is just the beginning & I’m serious when I ask all of you following me to pray daily for them as they make this God given music and shine light in the darkness. Aziatix all day!!!!! #salute #respect #proud #pray4aziatix

Note how Jaeson Ma describe this group as following God, having faith, being a light and them taking risk for Him in their musical career.

Apparently, this prompted one of Jaeson Ma’s fan to comment his concern about Aziatix:

Those guys have such amazing music n talent, its crazy. They are humble brothers, though not to hate just being honest, their album Awakening is amazing, but Godly isnt on the menu, especially one of the songs talking about taking some other guys girl and clubbing.

One can find online and read Aziatix lyrics and it seems that Jaeson’s fan had this particular song in mind.

Jaeson Ma’s response is very telling:

Michael what you need to understand is that music is a gift from God that expresses emotion, experience and personal truth for each artist. A song can talk about God explicitly or not explicitly. I personally don’t believe music should be categorized as Christian or not, what matters is that the music is good, is true to ones experience and honest. Sadly most so called Christian music is not honest or authentic, rather it is predictable and created in a certain way to fit a specific religious expectation. Study the gospels and you will see that when Jesus spoke to the masses He didn’t use religious jargon or language, but He spoke in parables with culturally relevant stories that the everyday person could relate with. When Jesus spoke to His disciples He spoke plainly about kingdom truths. there is music inspired by God for the world and there is also music inspired by God for the church, neither one is more acceptable than another. What God loves is that we use our musical talents by, through and for Him, Aziatix is doing just that and before casting a stone of judgment you should spend more time praying for them then judging them or any musician because you don’t know where they are coming from. I really do pray that people who follow Christ would follow His example of loving and appreciating each person human experience, for the only judgment Jesus made was against the religious who saw themselves as better and holier than others. With that being said, Aziatix all day and much respect to my man Jae Chong and the whole crew! God bless & God is love!

What are we to make of his comment?

Point 1: Note how Jaeson Ma comment doesn’t address his fan’s chief concern at all, that Aziatix’ musical content isn’t godly with the specific example of girls and clubbing.  Ma doesn’t even acknowledge his fan’s concern but goes off in a different direction.  He is committing the logical fallacy of red-herring.

 Point 2:  Jaeson said, “A song can talk about God explicitly or not explicitly.”  It seems reasonable that not every song has to be about God explicitly.  Moreover, if every song was about God explicitly there’s nothing wrong with it.  But what if the band’s entire musical career has never explicitly shared about Jesus and the Gospel at all?  How could Jaeson describe them as taking risks and who “shine light in the darkness”?

Point 3: Jaeson said: ” I personally don’t believe music should be categorized as Christian or not, what matters is that the music is good, is true to ones experience and honest.”  Note here that what matters for Jaeson is not the category of Christian and non-Christian but whether it’s “true to ones experiences and honest.”  But how do we know if that person’s experience was honest?  Or is really true?  Here it is important to see that there is a need for a Christian worldview to be worked out and applied to the area of music–and that in order to even talk about “honest” music even require things that ultimately can only make sense in a Christian worldview.

Point 4: Jaeson points out how “Sadly most so called Christian music is not honest or authentic, rather it is predictable and created in a certain way to fit a specific religious expectation.”  I’ll grant that, but what does this “wrong” have to do Aziatix’s worldliness in their music?  We must also remember that two “wrongs” don’t make a right.

Point 5: Jaeson Ma asserts that “Jesus spoke to the masses He didn’t use religious jargon or language,” which is quite unbiblical if one were to realize Jesus’ claim to being the Messiah involve Messianic titles there were explicitly religious and Scriptural (Old Testament) in nature!  One must understand that titles such as “Christ,” “Son of Man,” “Son of God” is rooted in the Old Testament!

Point 6: Jaeson also present a false dilemma between using “religious jargon or language” and speaking in ways “that the everyday person could relate with. ” The two are not mutually exclusive!

Point 7: Jaeson is begging the question when he asserts “What God loves is that we use our musical talents by, through and for Him, Aziatix is doing just that…”  One can’t really make a song for Him that glorifies Him if one goes about it in a worldy way or end up glorifying the lust of the eyes, and the love for this World.

Point 8: Jaeson use a popular line used by those who engage in verse abuse: “and before casting a stone of judgment you should spend more time praying for them then judging them or any musician because you don’t know where they are coming from.”  In essence, “Don’t judge,” says Jaeson Ma, who a few lines ago was the same one who said “most so called Christian music is not honest or authentic..[and] fit a specific religious expectation.”  If one looks at the context of Matthew 7 where the verse of not judging comes from, one will realize it’s against hypocritical judgement.  Jesus points out the irony of someone with a larger serious problem pointing out someone’s lesser problem in Matthew 7:3.  I submit such is the case with Jaeson Ma: When a fan points out the problem of his “spiritual” promotion of a band that’s worldly, he goes ahead and points out the speck that’s in the musical “authenticity” of Christian music.  He needs to remove his log out of his own eye!

Point 9:  Again the irony:  “for the only judgment Jesus made was against the religious who saw themselves as better and holier than others.”  Isn’t this truly the case that when a fan points out the issue of holiness and godliness, Jaeson Ma then proceed to make himself better and holier than his fan’s biblical conviction of being holy (set apart)?

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I have not heard of Joseph Prince before our mini-series focusing on popular leaders of the Charismatic movement in the Asian scene.  Our other blogger, EvangelZ, was the one who told me about him and how I should look him up.  It seems like he is a Charismatic prosperity gospel preacher with a big church in Singapore call New Creation Church.  His popularity is beyond Asia, and even here in the US.

Joseph Prince false teacher

His ministry uploaded a clip on Youtube from his sermon titled “Tongues–The Key To A Spirit-Led Life.”

The purpose of his message is clear:

Speaking in tongues make you supernatural.  So that is the prayer language that every believer should have.” (8:05-8:13).

He believes Christians SHOULD speak in tongues.  But in order to make his argument, he has to make two assumptions necessary for his case:

  • Speaking in tongues is not the same thing as the gift of tongues.
  • Those baptized in the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues.

In this post we will focus only on the first premise, that speaking in tongues is not the same thing as the gift of tongues.  Joseph Prince articulates and argue for this distinction between speaking in tongues and the gift in tongues seven minutes into the clip, saying:

So the biggest problem, the body of Christ today is that Charismatics who is baptized in the Spirit see it as a sign, alright, that they are baptized and that’s it but they don’t exercise the gift.  Now, many a times they exercise the gift when they come to church.  And that was the problem in the church of Corinth where Paul wrote trying to control of the gift of tongues.  Now gift of tongues, not everybody has the gift of tongues mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14, 12 and all that, where it talks about where you don’t have an interpreter, keep quiet.  Now that’s the gift of tongues.  All of us have the sign that Jesus said in Mark and this sign will follow those that believed, alright?  One of the signs is that they shall speak with new tongues.  Our Lord Jesus said that.  This sign will follow the believers.  Didn’t say pastors.  Believers.  Didn’t say Apostles and prophets.  Believers.  One of the biggest sign is what?  They shall speak with new tongues.” (7:01-7:58)

So while “not everybody has the gift of tongues,” Joseph Prince believes that the Bible teaches all believers “shall speak with new tongues.’

Joseph Prince might say this distinction parallel evangelism and giving:

  1. While some have the spiritual gift of giving (Romans 12:8), yet all believers are commanded to give (Romans 12:13, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2, 2 Corinthians 9:6-7, etc).
  2. While some have the spiritual gift of evangelism(Ephesians 4:11), yet all believers are commanded to evangelize/witness (Matthew 28:19-20, 1 Peter 3:15, etc).

Spiritual gifts will differ from individual to individual (Romans 12:6) but that doesn’t mean if we don’t have the spiritual gift of evangelism or giving that we cease giving and witnessing.

But does this distinction applies to the issue of speaking in tongues?  It doesn’t seem likely.  Note that in order for the gift/general function distinction to apply, it is necessary that God’s Word gives a command to believers in general to practice it.  While God does tells believers in general to witness and give, there are no imperative verbs in the New Testament ordering believers to speak in tongues.  Thus, Joseph Prince is not biblically warranted to make such the distinction between spiritual gift and practice of tongues.

However, Joseph Prince does attempt to show from the Bible that all believers should speak in tongues.  Recall how in the quote above he said, “All of us have the sign that Jesus said in Mark and this sign will follow those that believed, alright?  One of the signs is that they shall speak with new tongues.”  That passage in Mark in Mark 16:17, which says

These [d]signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues

As Prince stated, here in verse 17 it says “those who have believed,” and not just a subset of believers such as Pastors, apostles, etc.

But there are two good reasons why Mark 16:17 doesn’t support Prince’s cause.

First off, there is an issue of textual criticism with the end of Mark 16, in which verse 9 and following is disputed to be part of the original since many of the older and reliable manuscripts does not attests to anything beyond verse 8.  I myself believe the Gospel of Mark ends in Mark 16:8.

Secondly, even if we assume Mark 16:17 is part of the Greek autograph and therefore is legitimately part of God’s Word, this still doesn’t help with Joseph Prince’s cause.  I believe that the context of the immediate verse in Mark 16:18 strongly imply that we see a limitation of Mark 16:17 applying universally to all believers at all time.  Note verse 18 states:

 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

I would not want to see Joseph Prince pick up dangerous serpents and drink poison today.  If he believes that there are some exclusion to verse 18 being the case today, then I would say that to be consistent the context strongly demands an exclusion for the application of verse 17 for today also.  Thus Mark 16:17 does not provide (1) the warrant for Joseph Prince to assert that all believers are obligated to speak in tongues, (2) nor that which is necessary to establish the distinction of the gift of tongues and the act of tongues.

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jaesonma

We have written in the past concerning the Charismatic preacher turned Music Artist Jaeson Ma.  Although Jaeson Ma is no longer actively pastoring, he still preaches though it seems that he has been focusing more on his career with entertainment in the Asian and Asian American market than pastoring.

I think one cannot understand Jaeson Ma without understand the root that is driving his theology and specifically of his root with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).

On the Elijah List, a website that collects Charistmatic and Third Wave types of “prophecies,” one find that Cindy Jacob’s claim of Jaeson Ma as a “son in the Lord”:

Cindy Jacobs: God Says: “I Want My People to Pray In a New Pentecost that will Sweep the Face of the Earth”
by Cindy Jacobs
Apr 15, 2010

On December 31, 2009, the Holy Spirit spoke through me and said, “I’m going to shake the earth. You will begin to see earthquakes—I am going to shake everything that can be shaken. Look where the earthquakes are hitting because God is going to release a wind of Pentecost in those places.”


Another place of shaking was Los Angeles, California. Jaeson Ma, my son in the Lord…

Accessed here: http://www.elijahlist.com/words/html/textonly-041510-Jacobs.html

Cindy Jacobs is herself a false prophet.  That has been documented by Sandy Simpson and another example of her failed predication can also be seen here.

So in dealing with Jaeson Ma’s theology, one must come to grasp and refute the New Apostolic Reformation.  Check out the following link with many helpful articles HERE.

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Among other things, John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference has touched on the false teachings of the Prosperity Gospel.  It’s influence among Charistmatic circles is huge.  Known as the Word of Faith/Name-it-Claim-it/Blab-it-Grab-it theology, the impact of such teachings has dangerous spiritual repercussions and even at it’s best is a distraction from the Gospel (though I would add that its focus on the wrong things actually undermine the message and priority of the Gospel).

Over the years we have documented on our blog some of the dangerous fruits of Third Wave Continuationists and the Prosperity Gospel; and the fruits are not pretty.

I’m convinced that at the root of the problem with the Prosperity Gospel is the issue of idolatry.  That is, it’s an issue of who it is that is one’s God.  The functional god of those who are preachers and “parishioners” of the Prosperity Gospel is not the God of the Bible: it is the idolatry of the Self.  Let me explain with this illustration:

Idol of Prosperity Gospel Preacher

Until one identifies the root that’s driving the bad fruits, one can’t fully repent from the Prosperity Gospel since they don’t know what they must be turning away from.

The prosperity Gospel appeal to the carnal self.  It is all about pleasing the self and seeking gains for the pleasures of the self.  As a result, one shouldn’t be surprise to see the following fruits:

1.) An Emphasis on Subjective “Spiritual” Experiences versus the Word of God.  It’s experience-based rather than expositionally-based upon the Word of God.   And within Charismatic Word of Faith paradigm, the more supernatural the experience supposedly is, the better.  It becomes almost like a drug, an addiction to the spiritual experience itself rather than God Himself.  For some, one goes on religious roller coasters, where most of their life is in a spiritual slump until they wait for the next big high.  I believe that most of today’s speaking in tongues, getting slain in the spirit, holy laughter, “prophesying,” visions and “healing” spawn from this.  This also explains why so many false prophecies made in Pentecostal circles often are forgotten by those who hear them, because they are already looking for the next fixing for their veins of new “word” or predictions.

2.) Prosperity Gospel.  Having it’s mooring away from the Bible, advocates and believers of the Prosperity Gospel now have their discernment down.  With the idol of the self, a message of health and wealth appeals to their carnal wishes.  It tickles their ears.  Plus it’s about experiences and the experiences of the here and now-so why can’t we have the best of our life now?  Oh, should one also be surprise at tales of corruption behind the profits of prophets of the Prosperity Gospel?

3.) Infatuation of entering the entertainment industry.  Having now become materially driven, one now wants to be as successful in acquiring prosperity as they possibly can reach for.  For the best of the best in the circles of Prosperity Gospel, the sky is the limit but practically the sky is Hollywood:  think of what other industry brings the greatest fame, recognition and temptation of riches and luxury?  So with the supposed cover of wanting to reach out to Hollywood for Christ on a bigger platform, worldly methods and values are adopted in order to be part of the missionary effort to the entertainment industry and worldly goals and measure of success are adopted as well.  All this, while a bit of generic non-confrontational spiritual “Christian-ese” is sprinkled in one’s twitter and Facebook page, packaged for the mass amount of consumption possible.  Matter fact, often times prosperity preachers began small, who in desiring to be famous for being famous, they see twitter and other social media as the training wheels for developing fans responding to their selfies.

4.) Sexual immorality.  It can begin “innocent” enough with little efforts at mimicking the entertainment industry.  Or what you wear to indicate your prosperity by their fashion.  But if you are already feeding the Gods of self by appeasing it’s appetite of health and wealth, and fame and game, why hold back and be tame when it comes to sex?  Should we be surprise at why preachers of prosperity gospel have such heinous reputation of sexual immorality?

Don’t we see this being true at level three or four with those who are in the show Preachers of L.A., Kong Hee, Sun Ho and Jaeson Ma?

If any one sees this as a description of themselves, and God is convicting them, be warned by the Apostle Paul in Phillipians 3:19:

Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.”

See your sins for what they are, repent, surrender yourself so that Jesus would be the Lord and Savior of your life.  Jesus Christ has died on the Cross and His blood is the source of our forgiveness.  Have truth faith in God’s grace alone through Christ alone to save us.

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I grieve writing this post and it brings me no pleasure.

Pastor-Kong-Hee-wife

Yesterday I wrote a post concerning a major bad point of the theology of Kong Hee, a famous prosperity Gospel preacher in Singapore who is now facing legal trouble for inappropriate use of church funds.  Today I want to focus my post more on where he spent the stolen church money that reveals more of where he and his wife is at spiritually.  According to the UK newspaper Daily Mail, reportedly the Singapore megachurch founder was ‘stealing more than $40million to fund his wife’s American pop star dream’

Kong Hee’s wife is name Sun Ho.  What is the fruit of her American pop star dream?

This carnal music video.  (WARNING: INAPPROPRIATE)

And videos like it.

I hesitated posting this video, after all I have managed to blog about Miley Cryus without posting any pictures on here.  Here we have a Pastor’s wife who publicly display herself more like Miley Cyrus than a Biblical portrait of a Godly Woman.  I couldn’t bring myself to finishing this video, it’s that bad in terms of visual content, message, lyrics, musically and vocally.  It is aesthetically unpleasing.  It’s ironic that her video is about a women who’s enslave to serving her lover and the celebration of a woman’s freedom from the whim of a depraved male lover BUT the visual content of the video  wouldundermine that very message when Sun Ho the Pastor’s wife has to be enslaved to the lust of the World by protraying herself as an objectified woman, a woman who says she holds to the standard of the world’s beauty (with it’s sexual innuendo) rather than the standard of God.

And from what both Kong Hee and Sun Ho publicly states, they think their entrance into Hollywood is a good thing for the cause of God’s Kingdom!

But there is nothing of Christ, the Gospel or Christ-like being communicated in her music video.  Not with the B-Word used in the music video.  Not with Sun Ho the Pastor Wife acting like the pun of her last name.

Heed the Word of Paul in Ephesians 5:6-11:

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes uponthe sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9 (for the fruit of the Lightconsists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10 [f]trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even [g]expose them;

We ought not to walk in darkness or imitate ourselves like those in darkness.  We ought to expose it as Ephesians 5:11 teaches.

Stay tune for tommorow’s post on the topic of the functional idol of Charistmatic Prosperity Gospel preachers which will provide a Biblical paradigm to understand the modern Charistmatic Prosperity preachers and their fruits.

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The Strange Fire Conference is going on right now which you can see livestreamed here and of course the internet is buzzing.

charismatic chaos

We will be blogging a bit on this topic the next few days and Lord willing I myself want to focus a bit on some of the problematic Charistmatic/Prosperity Gospel in the Asian scene.  My concern is primarily centered on the issue of the Gospel and the worldliness of several proponents.

In this post I want to answer the question, “Why?”

Why should our blog tackle this issue when we can just focus on apologetics and only deal with Presuppositional apologetics and be happy with our niche?

Mennoknight over at his blog probably put it better in words than I could several days ago.  Although he writes this in the context of the problem of false teaching in Africa, I think the situation applies in the Asian context or anywhere right now in the world for that matter.  MennoKnight’s point is worth an extended block quote, challenging our priorities in apologetics:

Africa is drowning in prosperity gospel heretics and signs & wonders churches; the prosperity gospel is the face of Christianity in Africa…far more than I ever anticipated before I started this research.  It’s absolutely disgusting, and the influential churches in the west need to take out the axe and start clearing up shop.

Forget the atheists.  There’s a few thousand of them and they’re not worth wasting time on.  They’ve proven to be a total waste of time, every time…

Forget 99% of Western apologetics.  Who CARES about who’s debating another biology/zoology/whatever professor turned atheist/darwinist crusader?  I’d dare suggest that the debates that need to be done have already be done fifteen times over again.  Let’s give all our apologists a holiday and send in someone who will settle the issues at hand

I say a hearty amen.

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Back in July 2011, I wrote a post here on Veritas Domain on a “prophecy” that Asian preacher and prophet Jaeson Ma wrote back in 2006 ,that has been receiving a lot of attention and comments.  Most of the comments on that page has been offering up defenses for Jaeson Ma, and some of these objections are frequently brought up again and again.  The most recent one was by a brother in Christ name Kells, and I thought his concern was typical of the comments I have been getting and for the purpose of this post I  reproduce it in full here:

Doesn’t the Bible (in the NEW testament) also say you will know a false prophet by his fruit (Matthew 7:15-23)? I think Jaeson Ma genuinely believed he received a dire message from God. Perhaps he simply misinterpreted- it happens. If this is a singular, isolated occurrence, I don’t think it’s fair to put that label on him. One mistake versus years of work in the ministry, leading countless people to peace, fulfillment, and happiness in the salvation of Jesus Christ? Do you really think in GOD’S eyes he is a false prophet for this? A false prophet is a liar and a deceiver. Would you agree he is these things too? You are certainly allowed your opinion and I don’t know the guy but to jump to such a conclusion sets an unhealthy precedent for less mature believers and sets the unattainable standard that Christians must always be right about everything or they are “false prophets.” Furthermore, isn’t the whole point of this type of “prophecy” to get the people in that community to repent of their sins so that the proclaimed judgment could be avoided? Jonah proclaimed judgment on Nineveh. A judgment that never came to pass (because the people REPENTED). By your standard, that makes him a false prophet. Nobody can make anything happen, all we can do is try to be obedient to God to the best of our ability. You almost sound angry that it DIDN’T happen. For whatever reason, Jaeson was wrong (unless it’s yet to happen) and I for one am glad he was!

Now what follows is not a personal attack Kells, but rather I wish to address the issues that he has brought up and my concern for them that they are unbiblical in nature or even self-refuting, etc.  I thought I make this post as an easy way to offer a link for the frequently brought up objections defending Ma, so that I don’t have to keep on writing them again and again, using Kells’ comment in particular.

I hope that people will read this with consideration of the Word of God and not just subjective feelings masked under the guise, “The Spirit tells me otherwise…”  I think the general attitude of some who goes by their feelings and confusing that with the Word of the Lord is what has gotten Jaeson Ma in trouble in the first place!  As Christians, we are to tests things with the Bible as the Word of God and go by the what the Scriptures say rather than a preacher or someone who claims to be a prophet.  To be honest I am somewhat sadden the extent people will go in defending the reputation of a man rather than the reputation of God who have been suggested by Ma as saying something when He did not.

I do hope that supporters of Jaeson Ma read what I have to say in a better light rather than question my motive and say that I am mean spirited, that I wish for Ma to fail or something like that.

Objection #1: Jaeson Ma is not a  false prophet in light of Matthew 7:15-23.

Stated:Doesn’t the Bible (in the NEW testament) also say you will know a false prophet by his fruit (Matthew 7:15-23)? “

Response: The Bible in Matthew 7:15-23 does talk about a false prophet being known by their fruit.  For context, I think it’s appropriate to quote Matthew 7:15-23 in it’s entirety:

    15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will [a]know them by their fruits. [b]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [c]know them by their fruits.

   21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [d]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Note that this passage also makes it clear that false prophets might not be as obvious as some people think, for some are even pretending to be a believer of God (“sheep”) when really they are not, per Matthew 7:15.

Readers must also realize that Matthew 7 is not the only place God’s Word talks about false prophet; we must consider other passages as well.  How do we distinguish between false and true prophets?  What are the “fruits” that one can identify so as to know whether or not someone is a false prophet?  I think Deuteronomy 18:21-22 addresses the epistemological concern more directly with the first question of how we will know a prophet has spoken the Word of the LORD:

You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’  When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the things does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken.  The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)

Thus, one of the fruits of a false prophet is this: If a prophet makes a prophecy that did not come about, Deuteronomy 18:21-22 makes it clear that such a person is not speaking on behalf of the Lord.

Objection #2: Jaeson Ma “only just” misinterpreted his prophecy from God.

Stated:I think Jaeson Ma genuinely believed he received a dire message from God. Perhaps he simply misinterpreted- it happens.”

Response: First off, concerning the first sentence, just because someone thinks they received a message from God does not mean it’s really a message from God.  Secondly, even if we were to grant that Jaeson Ma genuinely believed he received a prophecy from the Lord, he could also be genuinely mistaken since unfortunately sincerity is not the standard for truth.  Thirdly, a biblical perspective concerning God’s true prophets (as opposed to someone who claims to speak on behalf of God but isn’t) is that a true prophet will not misinterpret his own prophecy; to say that misinterpretation of true prophecy from God by true prophets of God is to bend the meaning of “true” in true prophets, and what is “false” about false prophets.  In addition, to say that a true prophet of God can misinterpret the true prophecy God has given Him is impossible, and is slanderous against the Holy Spirit, since a true prophet will have a true and accurate interpretation of the prophetic materials he has recieved since the Holy Spirit will ensure this to be the case as 2 Peter 1:20-21 demonstrates:

20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Note what has been stated above.  I wonder if Christians would accept this kind of argument, that a false prediction “is not really false but just mistaken” if someone like Harold Camping (who predicted May 21st 2011 was the end of the world) would have said it, etc.  The practice of saying a prophet of God can make a mistake in interpreting it’s meaning does not have any biblical support.

Objection #3: Jaeson Ma only made one false prophecy, therefore it’s not fair to call him a false prophet.

Stated:If this is a singular, isolated occurrence, I don’t think it’s fair to put that label on him.”

Response: Even if Jaeson Ma made one false prophecy, I think it does qualify him as a false prophet, just as someone is a murderer even if that person only murder one, or a rapist if he raped one person, etc.  If one were to say that making one false prophecy is not in the same heinous bad category as rape and murder where one is warranted being labeled as a doer of those things even if it happened once, I think that individual needs to revisit the Word of God and see how seriously the LORD takes the sin of falsely presuming the LORD has spoken when HE has not, for such an offense at one point in redemptive history even carry the weight of capital punishment.  I think the greater issue should not be that I “put a label” on Jaeson Ma as a false prophet, but whether or not Jaeson Ma’s prophecy really is from the Lord, and if it’s not then…the one issuing those words is not a true prophet of God, but a false one.

Moreover, I think if one were to do a search here on this blog on Veritas Domain, one would realize that it’s not true that Jaeson Ma and his friends have just made one prophecy…he and those whom he associate with seem to have a habit of being interested in “prophecies” that does not come from Scripture, “prophecies” that are either downright false or highly questionable as coming from the LORD.

Objection #4: Jaeson Ma is not a  false prophet in light of Matthew 7:15-23 PART II.

Stated:Doesn’t the Bible (in the NEW testament) also say you will know a false prophet by his fruit (Matthew 7:15-23)? …One mistake versus years of work in the ministry, leading countless people to peace, fulfillment, and happiness in the salvation of Jesus Christ? Do you really think in GOD’S eyes he is a false prophet for this?  A false prophet is a liar and a deceiver. Would you agree he is these things too?”

Response: Again, let’s look at Matthew 7:15-23 in it’s entirety:

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will [a]know them by their fruits. [b]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [c]know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [d]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Kells here admits that Jaeson Ma has made a “mistake,” but I think that when the LORD speaks it is clear and there is no doubt about it, which is the precedence taught in Scripture.  One must ask the awkward question then of how would anyone mistaken the Lord speaking something when He did not, especially when it was not from Scripture.  That is quite an arrogant and a lying thing to do, to claim that God is saying something to you when He did not.  So I do not have a problem with calling Jaeson Ma a liar when it comes to his prophecy (of course,  Jaeson Ma can and  has told things that are true outside the realm of prophecy).  Our brother Kells asks the rhetorical question that Jaeson Ma cannot be a false prophet, since  how can one mistake go against Jaeson Ma’s“years of work in the ministry, leading countless people to peace, fulfillment, and happiness in the salvation of Jesus Christ?”  And the scary thing is that Matthew 7 directly tells us that false prophets can do those things that Jaeson Ma does.  Look at verse 22: “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [d]miracles?”  And the most frightening passage in all of Scripture follows in verse 23.  The implication from Matthew 7 turns out not to be a defense for Jaeson, but one that should make us truly frightened for any one who claims to do great miraculous things for God and speak presumptuously as a false prophet; Matthew 7 should make us concern of whether or not one who makes false prophecy about the LORD is self-deceiving themselves in regards to whether or not they truly are believers.

Objection #5: Exposing Jaeson Ma sets unhealthy precedence for less mature believers.

Stated:You are certainly allowed your opinion and I don’t know the guy but to jump to such a conclusion sets an unhealthy precedent for less mature believers and sets the unattainable standard that Christians must always be right about everything or they are “false prophets.”

Response: First off, I think there’s a caricature that I believe “Christians must always be right about everything or they are “false prophets.”  Nowhere did I ever suggests that if a Christian errs on something, they are then false prophets!  Rather, a person is a false prophet only if they claim to speak for the Lord something outside of the Bible and it’s not from the Lord, and it does not come to pass.  Also, nowhere did I  claim that Christians per se must be always right about everything.  However, that does not mean people claiming prophecies are then off the hook.  I hope it’s evident from the Scriptures cited earlier that Bible demands that those who make prophetic utterances to be 100 percent accurate, and that’s what I’m concern with in my original post.  I do not think I am jumping to conclusion prematurely about Jaeson Ma’s prediction, for even Kells agree with me that Ma is in error.

Secondly, I also think this objection also suffer from the additional problem that while Christian can and do err, that does not mean it’s wrong to point out error.  That is, it’s not altogether wrong either for Christians to point them out to one another.  Even the Apostle Paul dared to point out the hypocritical behavior that does not match up to the preaching of the Apostle Peter, as readers of Galatians 2:11-21 will recall.  And Peter was an Apostle, how much less will the rest of us claim a status of being immune from criticism!  Lest someone misapply Galatians 2:11-21 to defend that a prophet can err in their prophecies, Galatians 2:11 was about the Apostle Peter’s hypocritical action, not his utterances of the Word of God since it’s more about Peter not living up to what He knows and revelation of the Lord to him such as recorded in Acts 10.

Thirdly, in regards to the issue that what have been written exposing Jaeson might set an unhealthy precedence for less mature believers, I think the greatest threat with the whole discussion about Jaeson Ma is not the practice of Christian discernment and the exposure of error (for the epistles in the New Testament does that all the time), but Jaeson Ma’s false prophecy itself, which would stumble young believers when they see that they are not fulfilled and being seeds of doubt of whether or not God’s Word is true.  The true dangerous precedence that’s unhealthy for less mature believers is to think that dreams in today’s world in our current dispensation are prophecies from God.

Objection #6: Jaeson Ma and Jonah’s Prophecy

Stated:Furthermore, isn’t the whole point of this type of “prophecy” to get the people in that community to repent of their sins so that the proclaimed judgment could be avoided? Jonah proclaimed judgment on Nineveh. A judgment that never came to pass (because the people REPENTED). By your standard, that makes him a false prophet. Nobody can make anything happen, all we can do is try to be obedient to God to the best of our ability.

Response:  It does not seem the parallel with Jaeson Ma and Jonah is really that strong.  I agree that the Bible does show that one of the function of prophecies has been to get a community to repent of their sins and avoid judgment, Jonah being a good example of that.  However, to say that my standard would make Jonah a false prophet is not being totally fair.  I would grant that if a people repent, God may choose not to bring the prophecy of judgment to pass, being part of His plan.  However, this is the exact point where the parallel between Jonah and Jaeson Ma is most needed, fails to materialize: For Jonah, Nineveh repents, even up to the level of her leaders, and as a city collectively; when it comes to Jaeson Ma, could we really say that Los Angeles has repented and turn to the LORD corporately and that is the reason why God held back his prophecy from being fulfilled???
Though I mentioned about the discontinuity of the parallel between Jaeson and Jonah, space does not permit us to look at the messages Jaeson preaches in contrast to that of the Prophets’ delivery found in the Bible.

Objection #7: You are angry that a false prophecy did not happen.

Stated:You almost sound angry that it DIDN’T happen. For whatever reason, Jaeson was wrong (unless it’s yet to happen) and I for one am glad he was!

Response: If this is to imply that I’m angry that the Tsunami did not happen, and that I am some how sick and not compassionate because of it, I think this is not a fair representation of what I believe.  Of course I do not wish to see such a tragedy.  I’m not angry that the Tsunami did not come to pass, for my family would suffer too since they are in the area!  But I think that if I sound angry, it’s more of the passion for the Lord’s reputation.  I think that should be everyone’s primary concern as well.  Of course, I am glad that the Tsunami did not occur!  I suppose I do see it as kind of strange that someone would look at Jaeson Ma’s prophecy not being fulfilled with gladness and perhaps this illustration capture why I think so: Say you notice a doctor in the hospital telling everyone they have cancer when they did not, even though he did not come to know that by medical established means.  In one sense, you are relieved all the patients did not have cancer, but you would also be more upset that the doctor engage in such a speculation apart from the medical method, and you cannot even see how and why he would speculate with his dreams as being medical.  In the same way, I’m shocked at Jaeson Ma not going by the Bible as the Word of God, but his own dreams to say that it’s the Word of God when it was not.  I’m sad that people believed him.

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After yesterday’s post on Kim Clement, I discovered that others have also exposed him elsewhere on the internet.  I thought I post this for those who might have google searched this and find this helpful.

1.) Forgotten Word website documents some of Kim Clement’s False Prophecies: http://www.forgottenword.org/clement.html

2.) Slaughter the Sheep’s WordPress posts: http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/tag/kim-clement/

3.) Let Us Reason Ministries 2 Part series: http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac14.htm and http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac15.htm

4.) Kim Clement admits he is a false prophet: http://www.discerningtheworld.com/2010/08/01/kim-clement-admits-he-is-a-false-prophet/

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I’ve been digging through the archives of a Prophetic website.  There’s a guy name Kim Clement who is a “Prophet.”  He made a prophecy about 2005 which can be read here: http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/2969.  Besides bad doctrine, this guy claims to speak from the LORD but his prophecy reveals that he is a false prophet more than anything.  Hindsight is 20/20.  I’ve reproduced it here below:

January 30, 2005- Oklahoma City, OK: August, September, and October are going to be very wonderful in terms of the economy. There’s going to be a huge breakthrough God has planned and set aside.

And this is what the Lord said to me, “Because you have chosen the man that I wanted to be in the White House, and America had a choice, I will cause the next four years to be the greatest and to bring in the greatest harvest that the United States of America has ever seen in its centuries of history. In a four-year period there is going to be the greatest harvest. And I’m not talking about Asia. I’m not talking about Africa. I’m talking about this nation!”Schools, colleges, universities, the legal system, children . . . every one of them are going to be unbelievably revived. That is happening because there is a man in the Oval Office that God chose to watch over this nation. He is the watchman over the United States of America. “I’ve raised up a watchman. I’ve raised up a doorkeeper, a housekeeper. I’ve raised up somebody that’s going to watch over. He’s called the Gatekeeper of America. This man that you put in the White House, whether some of you agree with him or not, shall pray, and there will be four years of the greatest harvest that America has ever seen.”

Atheism Destroyed

Between August, September, and October there is a window open for families in America for atheism to be destroyed, for legalism to be destroyed, and for religion to be destroyed.

Life Span of Man

The age of man — the normal death age — will be 100 years of age, Bob Hope being the example of this.Twins

This will be a generation to bring forth more twins than any other because of the abortions that have taken place. God is putting double in the womb, so we have double trouble for the powers of hell!

Double Portion in 2005

“The earth is Mine. In 2004, the enemy came in and illegally stole in a year that I had purposed for great breakthrough. Now, because he did that to you, your families, your businesses, your homes, your finances, and your ministries, now I am in the position to pay you back with a double portion of what you were supposed to receive that year! So, not only do you have double trouble, but you have a double anointing, a double prosperity. You have a double power. You have double authority. You have a double of everything that was stolen from you — it’s yours this year. “And,” God says, “there is an abundance coming upon this house and upon this people. Rejoice as the prophet prophesies. It’s yours!”

CLAIM 1: Economic Breakthrough in August-October 2011

Kim Clement claims:

August, September, and October are going to be very wonderful in terms of the economy. There’s going to be a huge breakthrough God has planned and set aside.”

There is nothing of a huge breakthrough in terms of the economy in August-October 2005.

Note the GDP growth chart:

(Source; cf. this other source as well)

Would you say there is anything different in the last quarter of 2005 (which September and October fall under)?

If one expect some major economic breakthrough in August, September and October 2005 why do we find that economic reports stating problems in these areas:

* Short-Term Credit Measures (August 2005 SGS);
* Income Variance/Dispersion (September 2005 SGS);
* Consumer Price Index (an original background article and October 2005 SGS); (SOURCE)

CLAIM 2: Greatest harvest in 2005-2009

Kim Clement claims:

And this is what the Lord said to me, “Because you have chosen the man that I wanted to be in the White House, and America had a choice, I will cause the next four years to be the greatest and to bring in the greatest harvest that the United States of America has ever seen in its centuries of history. In a four-year period there is going to be the greatest harvest. And I’m not talking about Asia. I’m not talking about Africa. I’m talking about this nation!”

And,

and there will be four years of the greatest harvest that America has ever seen.

It does not seem that the four period of 2005-2009 would go down in church history as the largest harvests of souls coming to Jesus in light of centuries of Christian history nor of American Christian history.

CLAIM 3: Unbelievable Social institutional Revival

Kim Clement claims:

Schools, colleges, universities, the legal system, children . . . every one of them are going to be unbelievably revived. That is happening because there is a man in the Oval Office that God chose to watch over this nation.

Whatever revival there is with the institution of schools, colleges and the legal system…it was not at an “unbelievable” level.  There is so much that is not true of these institution, they are just as worldly and humanistic today as it was before 2005.

CLAIM 4: Life Span will be at 100

Kim Clement claims:

The age of man — the normal death age — will be 100 years of age, Bob Hope being the example of this. In the past I’ve always thought some people have been too hard on Charistmatics and Pentecostals.  But I’m realizing that in terms of apologetics as Christians we also need to “clean” our own backyard if we are going to give a full defense of the faith and also separate Biblical truth from plain old silliness.  There’s false prophecies being made again and again.  It’s time that these guys get exposed because they do not speak for God.

Did this come true in 2005?  According to the National Census study, the average life expectancy in 2005 was 77.4 years.  In 2004, it was 77.5.  Rather than going up to 100 years, there was instead a decrease in life expectancy!  See the Census data for yourself by clicking HERE.

CONCLUSION

This guy is a false prophet.  If you follow him, now is the time to stop and stick to the Bible and His revelation in the Word of God about Jesus Christ and the Gospel.  Don’t look for subjective feelings and excitement about “prophecies” instead of the truth that has already been revealed from God’s Word.  Study the doctrines of God and it’s implication for living in loving obedience to Him instead of one prophetic hype to the next.

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