This post is part of my intention to posts things on Sunday to call people back to the church who has left it and whom God might be working in their lives to draw them to Himself. Today’s post is going to be quite frank.
A quote that have really ministered to my soul the last two weeks is “Till sin be bitter, Christ will not be sweet” (Thomas Watson). I’ve been meditating about how true that quote is. Only when we see our sins for what it is, as sins against God, would we see the sweetness of our Savior. Then and only then would the Gospel be precious.
I bring this up since a real possibility why people leave the church is because they are not right with God. Even though people often downplay this important factor, we must not forget that sins separates us from God, and sinful rebellion against Him will dull us and make us apathetic towards God. Perhaps one might not even be saved to begin with, though at one time in one’s life when you went to church, but did so with an ulterior motive of some kind. But eventually church gets boring.
Is that you? Is Church boring? Are you looking for a church with some excitement among the people? Do you only look at the people, the programs and the place called “church?” Perhaps church is boring because you haven’t acknowledge that sin is bitter. But if one sees sins as bitter, then Christ will be sweet. And every week going to a God-fearing church that preaches the Gospel about a God who is our Savior who saves us from the punishment of hell and continues to sanctify us would be very sweet indeed. It would be sweet going to a biblical church because the Savior is proclaimed there…and we gather as a church to celebrate, remember and be renewed with this truth. We go to church and have our heart in it because we worship Him as worthy…and because He is a sweet Savior of our bitter sins. Non-Christians need the Gospel…but Christians need the Gospel too.
Amen Brother in Christ Jesus-Yeshua Slim Jim!!
Jesus ( Yeshua ) Christ is KING of kings, HE is LORD of lords, HE is the ALPHA and OMEGA, HE is the BEGINNING and the END!! Hallelujah and Maranatha!!
Love ❤ Always and Shalom Everyone,
Kristi
Thanks for reading this Kristi.
Amen brother, good one for this Sunday morning
Thanks Wally for reading this. I pray God would use it.
He will, or He would not have had you write it!
Amen, brother!
And Amen! I pray God would use this to convict the people that this applies to!
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Thanks for sharing this post on a Sunday! Praying that God would use this!
You’re very welcome Pastor Jim! Me too!
All of the above! Have you ever read Ralph Venning’s “The Sinfulness of Sin”? I did and could only do it in small chunks it was so convicting. I bought it at a small book store because the title intrugued me. The PDF can be found online.
I have not! I need to look for it tonight, after all my duties on Sunday.
Click to access sinfulness.pdf
I bring this up since a real possibility why people leave the church is because they are not right with God.
One of many possibilities – with countless thousands of people who have some degree of church history, suggesting that all of them or a majority of them are all really sinners is painting the group with a broad brush. Have you actually bothered to asked people why they left? “Because I realized I was really a sinner.” Probably wouldn’t make the top ten list. Things that might: bad theology, abusive authoritarian leadership, lack of opportunity to serve, being treated as an outsider, etc.
Perhaps one might not even be saved to begin with, though at one time in one’s life when you went to church, but did so with an ulterior motive of some kind.
In this region, children are expected to attend church until they reach high school age. I can’t imagine what ulterior motive some elementary or middle school kid might have for attending church. Could be a failure of imagination on my part, but this just sounds implausible.
a God-fearing church preaches the Gospel … a biblical church … the Savior is proclaimed there
At least this leaves an opening – to suggest that there aren’t God-fearing biblical churches out there that get things wrong. Now even God-fearing and biblical churches aren’t immune from it either – people would have said that Mars Hill was a good church but it imploded because a failure in leadership: “There is a pile of dead bodies behind the Mars Hill bus, and by God’s grace, it’ll be a mountain by the time we’re done” – Mark Driscoll
Don’t just assume that people don’t show up at church because they’re sinners – ask them what the last straw was. For me, it was bad theology.
Hey Jamie,
I think you are unfairly characterizing my post. I don’t think I was broadbrushing that this is true of everyone in my post and I think my post made that clear. Ironically I think you are unfairly misrepresenting me with generalizations that imply things I didn’t say.
I am saying one possibility that shouldn’t be brushed away too easily why people aren’t in church has to do with their sins. In no way am I denying that there might be other reasons. Then you come and comment saying that’s not the only reason and that there are other reasons involved.
Jamie, I don’t know your circumstance and what you went through. If your conscience is clean before God and His Word concerning leaving your former church, then this post doesn’t apply to you. But make sure, as our hearts often rationalize sin (mine’s included). I hope you are plugged into a healthy body in Christ, if not, I’m willing to pray for you, I know its not always easy these days.
Sometimes the things people do say lead inescapably to the conclusion of the things that they don’t say especially when they feel the need to say it in more than one way. The stories I read from David Kinnaman in “You Lost Me” suggest that the top reasons an entire generation of young people are leaving the church are only tangentially sin-related: (1) overprotective – make one mistake and you’re no longer perfect (2) shallow – nothing ever goes deep (3) anti-science – the church isn’t interest in the truth that agrees with the facts (4) repressive – the church isn’t capable of dealing with the reality of the world (5) exclusive – the “if you’re not with us you’re against us” mindset (6) doubtless – if one comes to question anything then it’s viewed as faithlessness so there’s no middle ground.
Sin is little more than a red herring at this point – focus on this scratch in the surface rather than repairing the gaping chasm next to it as if it’ll make everything good as new.
Some church leaders are actually celebrating that people don’t show up any more, “They’re cultural Christians or the lot that only shows up on Easter and Christmas, they’re not real true Christians who have conviction enough to show up every Sunday, so without all that dead-weight our church is being purified as dross is removed from silver.”
If you want to draw people back to God, ask them what drives them away from the Church and deal with those things. You could go on a crusade against sin, but you’ll find that it won’t pack them back in Church if it’s not the reason why they left and remain gone.
Jamie,
We can’t have a rational discussion if you are not going to stop misrepresenting other views.
1a.) “Sometimes the things people do say lead inescapably to the conclusion of the things that they don’t say especially when they feel the need to say it in more than one way.”
Response: Logically doesn’t follow. Saying something in more than one way does not necessarily lead to a conclusion of something they didn’t say. Especially if I have already said that this is not my position. It does not logically follow buddy. If you want to use that kind of problematic hermeneutics back with your own comments, should we conclude that since “the things you did say lead inescapably to the conclusion of the things that you didn’t say especially when you feel the need to say it in more than one way” therefore means you don’t believe no one ever left the church because of their sins?
1b.) “Sin is little more than a red herring at this point”
Response: Actually I’m afraid you are doing the red-herring. I wrote a post to pastorally address those who left the church due to their sins and you come here taking this off topic and misrepresent me with broad generalizations. Please read things carefully, don’t just assume people saying things they didn’t say and enough with the red-herring.
Stop with the logical fallacies buddy.
I know of people who left the church and went to another because their sin got exposed. Instead of repenting they chose to keep the sin and find a congregation unaware of their sin.
Patrick, when you wrote those words, certain faces flash before my eyes that I’m praying for. So true.
Your post Jim is a viable possibility. I, along with many I know, have left the church for another reason.
I left the only so-called strong biblical sound church in my small community. I left for a very good reasons.
The truth of the Scriptures took a back seat to worldly philosophy and man’s teaching. There was more emphasis on being like the culture, rather than separate. I could go on and give you more information, but I think you see why I left.
Being a widow, I knew I had to remain silent as the Holy Word teaches.
Since I am also home bound, this left me with the most “blessed” 18 months in my relationship with God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. These past 18 months I’ve grown deeper in love with our Glorious God.
I don’t listen to christian radio or watch televangelists. I purchased some heavy duty teaching helps (not commentaries) such as Vines complete dictionary and I now own 7 different translations (?).
The Lord has blessed me with hours everyday to be in study and my relationship with Him is my life.
HE IS MY LIFE, to do His will until He calls me home.
Maybe I should have made this into a post.
I have led my youngest daughter (29) to Christ, and my oldest son (42) return to the Lord! ! I cannot praise our amazing God for this opportunity. Being in His will,He has gifted me fellowship with other members of the Body of Christ in so many areas.
2 Timothy 4:7 within the context of the entire letter is commitment to our Almighty God.
Be blessed brother
A few post scripts. Idk how to correct grammar errors on these comments, so now I will now. 1?
“I cannot praise our amazing God -> ENOUGH for this opportunity ”
Also, solely depend on the discernment of the indwelling Holy Spirit for wisdom and godly knowledge.
My dear sister in the faith,
I have prayed for your church situation in the past and this renew my desire to commit to praying for you.
This post is not addressed to you sister, and I know in certain areas it is hard to find a biblical church in teaching. Actually I plan to write a future posts concerning predicaments such as yours.
Thank you brother Jim. I knew the purpose of the post, and the several reasons for folks to walk away from their church family. Maybe you could post other reasons, so other believers can pray as well. Anyone who decides, no matter what the reason, to leave… it is our loving response to pray earnestly for them.
I have missed reading your blog.
I do desire to write on other reasons each Sunday, but I also don’t want to promise given how things get busy right before Sunday for me.
By the way if you ever happen to read any book reviews of mine that you find the work might be spiritually helpful for you, let me know and I don’t mind purchasing them on Amazon and have them sent to you.
Thank you and bless you my brother! !
Reblogged this on Fertiileground's Blog and commented:
forsake not the gathering together of God’s saints
Thanks for reblogging this
That Watson quote is perfect Jim. I will be meditating on that as well.
Praise God
Looking forward to reading future posts in this series.
I don’t want to speak for Jamie Carter, because I don’t know anything about her or her situation. I do know that some people are very sensitive about not attending church. They want to go, but cannot find a church that is not poisonous in one way or another.
The natural response to such a statement from many people is a belittling one. You are not doing this – but without the context of other posts, a person could jump to the conclusion that you are painting with a broad brush.
It is terribly disheartening to visit so many broken churches. And they cannot be easily fixed.
What happens when you keep having to whittle away the “essentials” to find a church to go to? Doesn’t that make you apostate, too?
If you want to try this for yourself, bring the original confession of the denomination to the church you are considering and have a meeting with the pastor.
But then again, who cares about doctrine these days? Only those of us who bemoan the state of the churches…
Alec,
You comments are certainly welcome and there is nothing with your tone brother. I certainly have great sympathies for those who are in such a predicament as you have described. I don’t think it is merely hypothetical but actual as seen from other commentators here in this post. I re-read my post and honest to God, I wrote that piece pastorally and I still think that’s true after another re-reading. I truly feel the only way someone can feel that I am broad brushing in my posts is in light of Jamie’s comments.
Alec I do plan to write on the difficult situation you described and I acknowledge its difficulties. Obviously those who bemoan the state of the church don’t fall in the category of the post I was addressing, those who are apathetic about their sins and find the church “boring” in regards to spiritual matters.
I welcome your comments and others for the iron sharpening iron in terms of clarifying and nuancing the conversation. Please do share your thoughts again in the near future.
PS, Slimjim, hope the tone of the comment doesn’t come across negatively. I’m just so sad about this subject.
Good reminder SlimJim
[…] Read the rest of the post here: Consider the possibility that the reason you aren’t going to church has to do with your sins | The… […]
Thanks Wally for sharing this post!
Well said! I think you are right. I’ve had my own struggles with churches, but somehow I manage to be there, somewhere, anywhere, with a group of believers engaged in praise. The church does many things, but that is kind of the bottom line, we’re supposed to come together and worship.
Amen!
That brings to mind the verses out of John chapter 4:
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24
Our worship of our holy God cannot be divorced from the truth. If a church has worship that is not squarely resting upon the truth of the Word of God, the Bible, then that worship is not pleasing to God. I would rather please God through worshiping Him in truth and spirit than in compromising with false teaching and join with others in a form of worship that does not please my God my Father and Jesus Christ His Son, my Lord and Savior. Amen!
Amen there must be truth as a foundation for worship and foundation for the church
That is the major problem with most churches today they have exchanged the truth of the Word of God, the Bible, for the lie of the word of man, led by the devil. Worship in such churches is idolatry and contributes to the great apostasy of our day. May Christ keep us faithful. Amen!
[…] Original post @ https://veritasdomain.wordpress.com/2016/01/17/consider-the-possibility-that-the-reason-you-arent-go… […]
Thanks for the reblog!
A lot of good comments and good thoughts. I understand Jamie’s frustration with churches. I’ve seen my own fair share of sour apples. There were times when I was going through the motions. There have been times when I’d start skipping a service here or there until I realized two very important truths: We are part of a local church in order to encourage, strengthen and serve others; we go to worship service not to satisfy ourselves but to show God that He we consider Him worthy of our time and worship.
Many people blame other people because it’s easier than self-examination. What did the early Christians do when they didn’t have 30 churches to choose from? They stuck it out and many worked to remain faithful to the end. We have to choose—regardless of our church situation—that we will be a servant of God in whatever capacity.
I currently worship at a church that is doctrinally sound, but has lost its focus. We are often frustrated by many things… frustrated to the point where we started driving 1.5 hours to another congregation for awhile. But we came back and I started doing more personal devotion and prayer and study. It made all the difference. I can go to worship and encourage and offer praise to God even though I’m not happy with the circumstance. I had to fight my own desire and, again, it made all the difference.
We all (even those of us who do attend regularly) need to do regular heart checks.
Great post, my friend!
Wow thank you for sharing that. I’ll be praying for your church’s focus. This is a comment that others should definitely read.
This is true, Jim – thank you!
You’re welcome Maria