For those of you guys on Facebook Why?Outreach shared a meme with links to Christian responses to a meme arguing against God/Jesus/Christianity.
Here’s the meme:
There’s several approaches one can take in response to this meme. The articles “Why?Outreach” linked in response to this meme is include “Does Spider-Man Really Exist?” and “Jesus and the Spiderman Fallacy.”
I thought I chime in with my response.
- The reasoning according to this meme is that just because something is written it does not mean it is true or that something exists because it is mention in writing.
- However we must also remember that just because something is mentioned in a book that does not necessarily mean it is false either.
- To demonstrate how absurd this meme is let us plug in another referent besides God:
- As seen above, the force of the argument behind the meme is weaker than they first appear.
- The second meme might provoke the response by some that a text book is different than a comic book. This observation only highlight the weakness of the meme; specifically the problem with this meme is that it is rather shallow. It is shallow in that the person behind the meme has failed to properly acknowledge the similarities and differences between the various genres/literary forms of various writings and books. And like any shallow arguments and memes, it starts getting into trouble when we start examining the details more closely.
- Of course if the skeptic thinks the Bible is the same thing as a comicbook he or she has the burden of proof of demonstrating how they are the same literary genre. That is, they have the burden of proof of showing how the two have same literary elements that make up a comic book.
- Objectively speaking comic books and the Bible are not of the same genre. The Bible is more an encyclopedia of various writings comprised of various genres. These genres ranges from Law, narratives, poetry, wisdom literature, prophesy, epistles, genalogies, etc So the meme is wrong to equivocate the Bible with comic books like the same way it is wrong to equivocate the Bible, a math text book and a comic book are the same thing.
- Our discussion in point 5-7 is about literary form is not a dodge from the meme. Identifying literary forms takes precedence before one can determine the literature’s truth value. For example when we are discover that we are reading a romance novel we know its not describing reality in the same way as a receipt. Discussion of literary forms is about the authorial intent and function of the literature. The authors of both intended very different things with their works. Thus the individual who designed the meme is comparing apples to oranges.
- Furthermore, this meme fail to account for the fact that proofs can be given in written book form.
- Actually depending on the nature of the item being discussed proof for something abstract can sometime be more logical than empirical and demonstration of the proof requires words whether spoken or written.
- Per point 9, we must also keep in mind that we prove various things using various and different methods. To quote Christian philosopher Greg Bahnsen, we must not commit the fallacy of trying to physically look for God in the pantry because He’s not that kind of being.
- This meme fail to account for the evidential dimension of the Bible itself. The Word of God is self-evidencing, attested by the Spirit, contain many fulfilled prophecies that include the fulfillment by Christ of Messianic prophecies, etc.
- Also do not forget that according to the Christian worldview it is not only the Bible that is “proof” for God. The biblical worldview also acknowledge that God has revealed Himself not just only in Scripture but also in the world which Christians often call general revelation (see Psalm 19 and Romans 1).
- Its fascinating that skeptics and atheists share this meme online as something “reasonable.” Yet even though atheists attempt to use logic and engage in the process of reasoning, their view of ultimate reality undermine the very laws of logic they are trying to use. The atheist worldview destroys the foundation for laws of logic and knowledge. Its like someone irrationally doing Math with Dice. For a technical presentation of the problem see James Anderson’s “The Lord of Noncontradiction: An Argument for God from Logic.” For Dr. Anderson’s response to three critics of the argument click here.
- Rather than scoring against Christianity the meme raises more problem both with the meme itself and the attack on God itself being a self-defeater. It reminds me of the guy torching A Safe Full of Fire Works. Just don’t do it.
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Thanks for the reblog, praying for your doctor’s appointment
You’re very welcome Pastor Jim. Appointment went well, blood work to be done in a week, stress test in May. Given green light to resume power walking and light jogging, Praise God for all your prayers Brother 😎
Well said.
I’m not fully convinced, Jim. Let me explain.
What I believe atheists are fighting in this meme is the Christian assertion that we know God exists (and is who He is revealed to be in Scripture) “because the Bible says so.”
Their argument is that any book can say anything and that doesn’t make it true.
And they are correct. And I’d argue that there is no convincing argument for the existence of God which can be accepted by the carnal mind who wants to deny God (1 Cor 2:14).
Even the BEST argument for God coupled with man’s inherent knowledge of God is insufficient to convince anyone because of their sin (Romans 1:20 & Romans 1:18).
Because of presuppositions, the Bible says so is “utterly sufficient” for you and me and “extremely foolish” to the atheist.
I do like how you showed the square root analogy though. That proves the opposite of the atheist’s point very well.
Ultimately, only a changed heart can believe in the God of Scripture, and His son Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There are a few people who have come to Christ through a rationalist route. C.S. Lewis was one. So it’s not impossible. After all, Christianity IS entirely rational, if perhaps not obvious.
But for most people, I’d agree. The veil needs to be removed. And even C.S. Lewis’ intellectual arrival doesn’t have to fall outside of John 6:44. God draws people in many ways.
If you can show me an example in Scripture, Brandon, of a person who came to Christ apart from the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, I’ll consider what you’ve written. I just don’t see that in Scripture.
Note, I didn’t say making good rational arguments is a bad thing, or that it is useless – simply that it is powerless apart from the gospel (Romans 1:16) to lead someone to salvation or fear of the Lord.
I have no doubt that intellect was merely Lewis’ road to conversion, not the conversion itself. Many of Paul’s arguments of Jesus’ Messiahship to the Jews were rational, exegetical, and historical.
No doubt about that, Brandon.
Hey brother Michael,
I’m about to head out with a pastoral visitation. I think I agree with your comment in its entirety. I do believe that the proposition that God exists is one we believe on sufficient grounds even if it is from Scripture alone and that’s because of the nature of the Scripture. Per point 11 it is because the Bible is self-evidencing and that I mean whatever Scripture says it is not only rational but we have an epistemic and moral responsibility to believe it. I stand with you that “there is no convincing argument for the existence of God which can be accepted by the carnal mind who wants to deny God (1 Cor 2:14).” In the same epistle Paul also quoted the Old Testament saying ““I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”” I think the post was pointing out more how God destroyed the so-call wisdom of those who think they are wise to use this meme to set up a stronghold against Christ, which we must tear down as Paul mentioned in 2 Corinthians 10:5. What do you think brother? I welcome further feedback.
Good one! This apples to oranges comparison is meant to elicit a lot of chuckles and nods of approval from the unbelievers. The Bible has an interesting history; written by forty different authors over a span of 2000 years yet with a common thread from beginning to end – the sinfulness of man and salvation in Jesus Christ.
Good point on the Bible’s amazing unified theme of sin, salvation and Christ which attests to its Divine nature. It surely is an apples to oranges comparison! I’ve seen this meme float around on facebook a year or so ago and saw it again twice in a week so I felt I was obligated to write this up.
This is an interesting comment stream. I was impressed by how much archaeological and historical evidence was ignored by whoever came up with the meme. As far as intellect vs. the work of the Holy Spirit, I think that rational discourse can be a means by which God draws us to him, i.e. that he is embedded in or working through our thought processes. Things don’t necessarily have to be “either or” in their nature. They can be both in some very important instances. On those occasions where I know that God has spoken to me, on some level it felt like thinking. I refer to the Holy Spirit as the internal tutor.
Rob,
I was wondering if you might have heard of Presuppositional apologetics? I do deny the role of archaeology and historical evidences personally but do think that many times when discussing with nonbelievers we must also deal with the bad philosophy of evidnces they have. Moreover, even the things they often take for granted is destroyed by their unbelieving worldview but which makes sense or is intelligible in a Christian worldview.
Agreed. I was just referring to the fact that many people even ignore or are unaware of the very kinds of evidence they demand.
Awesome pos, brothert! A fun fact is that I wrote on this same meme for my very first apologetic article on my blog. Time just flies these days.
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This is really good Jim. I interact every now and then with someone who likes to use Lord of the Rings instead of Spider-Man but, same argument.
Thanks for reading this brother!
You bet. Good stuff, as always
[…] 3.) The “Spiderman fallacy” argument against Christianity? […]
LOL! I love your response when you did what the skeptics do and put a math book instead of the Bible. Nice.
Thanks! Good to hear from you again brother!
[…] The “Spiderman fallacy” argument against Christianity? […]
I’m late to the game, but this is well done.
Poached Egg shared this on Twitter!
Cool Pretzel!
This is a thorough response. Just what I was looking for.
This response approach the objection from so many angles