For today’s post we will tackle the question the Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babylon?
Here are the answers which the skeptic believes indicate a Bible contradiction:
2812
“the sons of Pahath-moab of the sons of Jeshua and Joab, 2,812;” (Ezra 2:6)
2818
“the sons of Pahath-moab of the sons of Jeshua and Joab, 2,818;” (Nehemiah 7:11)
(All Scriptural quotation comes from the New American Standard Bible)
Here’s a closer look at whether or not there is a contradiction:
- When dealing with skeptics’ claim of Bible contradictions it seems one can never be reminded enough of what exactly is a contradiction. A contradiction occurs when two or more claims conflict with one another so that they cannot simultaneously be true in the same sense and at the same time. To put it another way, a Bible contradiction exists when there are claims within the Bible that are mutually exclusive in the same sense and at the same time.
- One should be skeptical of whether this is a Bible contradiction given the Skeptic Annotated Bible’s track record of inaccurately handling the Bible. See the many examples of their error which we have responded to in this post: Collection of Posts Responding to Bible Contradictions. Of course that does not take away the need to respond to this claim of a contradiction, which is what the remainder of this post will do. But this observation should caution us to slow down and look more closely at the passages cited by the Skeptic Annotated Bible to see if they interpreted the passages properly to support their conclusion that it is a Bible contradiction.
- The skeptic tries to pit Ezra 2:6 as affirming the claim “2,812 of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babylon” against Nehemiah 7:11 as affirming “2818 of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babylon.”
- One must always figure out the context of the verses the skeptic cited.
- The book of Ezra was written before the book of Nehemiah. The purpose of the book of Ezra records God’s fulfillment of bringing back the nation of Israel after 70 years of captivity. The first six chapters of Ezra record Zerubbael’s leadership in leading the exiles to return to build the alter in Jerusalem. Chapter 7-10 record how 80 years after Zerubbabel’s first trip Ezra journeyed to Jerusalem with a second group and how God used Ezra to bring about reform (William MacDonald, Believer’s Bible Commentary, 482).
- The book of Nehemiah record the third great leader of the Jewish return and restoration to the Promise Land after the Exile. Nehemiah was originally a cup bearer to the Persian King who thirteen year after Ezra’s expedition he was burden for the conditions of Jerusalem (William MacDonald, Believer’s Bible Commentary, 482). So God use Nehemiah to restore the city walls of Jerusalem and also other spiritual and moral reforms.
- Knowing the background of both books we can see that the time between Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7 is about a period of 93 years or so.
- Knowing there is a 93 years period between Ezra 2 and Nehemiah 7 help us to understand the possible reasons for the differences of both chapters’ listing.
- First off In Ezra 2:1 it seems to indicate the list is giving an account of those who decided to depart Babylon in order to return to the promise land: “Now these are the people of the province who came up out of the captivity of the exiles whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away to Babylon, and returned to Jerusalem and Judah, each to his city.“
- The purpose of listing the first generation’s return to the Jerusalem in Nehemiah 7 seems to be for the reason of organizing a new genealogy in Nehemiah’s day by first basing it upon the template of the first genealogy of the first generation. Note Nehemiah 7:5: “Then my God put it into my heart to assemble the nobles, the officials and the people to be enrolled by genealogies. Then I found the book of the genealogy of those who came up first in which I found the following record:” The different purposes must be remembered.
- Considering that Ezra 2:1 mentioned that the list in Ezra 2 are those who left the captivity in Babylon to return to Jerusalem we must remember that it is situated in a context in which Ezra 1 the people have not arrived yet to Jerusalem while the people arrived in the end of chapter 2 and beginning of chapter 3 of Ezra. It is reasonable to understand the listing of names and numbers in Ezra refer to those who departed Babylon. But just because one departed from Babylon for the promise land does not mean everyone would have arrived. Even with modern military units when we walk on foot hiking somewhere it doesn’t mean 100% of us arrive at our destination especially if there’s some incredible distance to travel; why won’t be surprised with civilians and families traveling that some will not arrive at their final destination for whatever reason?
- Thus Nehemiah 7’s listing might be of those who actually did arrive in Jerusalem and the promise land and not just a listing of those who attempted to return back to Jerusalem and the promise land.
- Also even upon their arrival to the promise land that doesn’t mean there’s a census done right away; there’s lots to do to settle in and the work of census for a genealogy might be a significant time later when things are more stable.
- Also given there’s 93 years between the two listing we can understand the latter listing in Nehemiah 7 might be a count of the population at a given specific time. Don’t forget population changes up and down for many reasons: death, births, young men coming of age in which they are now counted as adults, etc.
- A group of two thousand men along with their family is quite a large number. Think of a church of two thousand. Given the rule of large number there will be no doubt fluctuating numbers of people being born, dying or reaching adult age to be counted by the census. I know churches with way less than 2,000 and their number of who is on the church members roll vary from week to week! Likewise with 2,000 members, that’s a lot of people with a lot of variable of things going on in their life. When you think about the differences between 2,812 and 2818 is only 6. A large group of 2,812 men and their families as they head out of Bablyon can easily have 6 more young men come of age and considered adults when they get to the promise Land.
- There is no contradiction here. Seems the skeptic needs to learn of How to Handle Bible Contradictions.
- We shouldn’t miss that worldviews are at play even with the skeptic’s objection to Christianity. The worldview of the author of the Skeptic Annotated Bible actually doesn’t even allow for such a thing as the law of non-contradiction to be meaningful and intelligible. In other words for him to try to disprove the Bible by pointing out that there’s a Bible contradiction doesn’t even make sense within his own worldview. Check out our post “Skeptic Annotated Bible Author’s Self-Defeating Worldview.”
[…] How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babylon? […]
Don’t modern refugees start out with a larger group leaving and less who arrive to their destination? This is sort of ridiculous
With a small difference in both numbers, the skeptics, without minding on the context, should have foregone this in their list and treat this as a margin of error. But even if the discrepancy is just one, they will gladly add it as an entry. Maybe it is GOD’s sovereign will, Jim, so you can give us the context on these two books and datas; and it is not a margin of error after all. That means I have to read on these prophets soon. We will pray for these skeptics to finally repent and live according to GOD’s teachings. Thank you for the post.
Thank you for reading this! I love reading the Old Testament prophets and historical books, it seems of all the books in the Bible I always learn something new from my reading of it every time! God’s Word never gets old amen Gersom?
Amen! The omnipresent Triune GOD’s word never gets old.
Thanks for examining and rebutting this alleged contradiction. Your arguments certainly make sense given the changing conditions involving the physical journey and time.
It seems to me the skeptics is making something out of nothing from a before and after list. When I was in the Marines each time we hike as a radio operator I call it in how many Marine enlisted and officers and how many Navy enlisted and officers (We don’t have medics, we have Navy Corpdmen that is attached to us as “medics”) start the trip. We do the same at the end and if we hike for a long time obviously the number will change from people with a roll ankle, etc., that had to be taken by vehicle to be tended to, etc. I don’t think Steve Wells put much study into these two chapters from Ezra and Nehemiah. I hit 15 K today away from home! How is your day thus far?
RE: the skeptics is making something out of nothing from a before and after list.
Definitely
RE: 15K
Wow! Nice step count! Slow start today, only 4K, but just about to cut other half of backyard and that will put on the steps. Fall is here! 🍁 A chilly high of 59F in ROC today!
It seems the skeptics are hoping that with so much details that comes with census and genealogies no one will figure out how they twist the Scripture but take it at face value devoid of context.
This is why we need to be Bereans
Thanks for sharing these contradictions slimJim ☺️
Great work refuting this non contradiction.
Interesting information on Ezra and Nehemiah.
Thank you pastor Jim.
Thank you sister for reading this. Still praying for Ms Fernando
You are one of God’s treasures. Thank you.
Blessings for your Lord’s Day.
Interpreting the Bible correctly is a lot of hard work; but the payoff is great. Thank you for looking into this
I was thinking that too. I am under the impression that the skeptics don’t really do the hard work of exegesis hence fallacies abound in their list of Bible contradictions
Right, Sir or Ma’am
[…] 2.)Bible Contradiction? How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babylon? […]
Out of two thousand people a difference of 6 during two different population count really isn’t a problem
The skeptics don’t know their Bible and it shows
Thank you for spending time on answering the atheist’ blasphemy
[…] 2.)Bible Contradiction? How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babyl… […]
Never underestimate how stupid people can get
That’s some truth right there
Rekt
Thank you for explaining this. I’m not a Bible scholar and so keep these coming!
Six more is no big deal lol
You effectively neutralize the atheist’s objection to the Bible with this particular objection.
I enjoyed reading your answers to Old Testament contradictions. These are very well done and informative. Thanks to you or your team and keep up the good work.
Thanks for putting the time into this to answer the skeptics for the rest of us
[…] How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab’s offspring returned from Babylon? […]
Oh I truly Love it Pastor!! I love when you refute skeptics!! 👍💗🕊📖😇
Ahh thank you Brother Roland!! Thanks for the encouragement and support!!!