Today’s post will tackle another question that the Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: “Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice?”
Here are the answers which the skeptic believes shows a Bible contradiction:
Before the cock crow.
“Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you that this very night, before a rooster crows, you will deny Me three times.”” (Matthew 26:34)
“But He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster will not crow today until you have denied three times that you know Me.”” (Luke 22:34)
“Jesus *replied, “Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly I say to you, a rooster will not crow until you deny Me three times.” (John 13:38)
Before the cock crows twice.
“And Jesus *said to him, “Truly I say to you, that this very night, before a rooster crows twice, you yourself will deny Me three times.”” (Mark 14:30)
(All Scriptural quotation comes from the New American Standard Bible)
Here’s a closer look at whether or not there is a contradiction:
- When dealing with skeptics’ claim of Bible contradictions it seems one can never be reminded enough of what exactly is a contradiction. A contradiction occurs when two or more claims conflict with one another so that they cannot simultaneously be true in the same sense and at the same time. To put it another way, a Bible contradiction exists when there are claims within the Bible that are mutually exclusive in the same sense and at the same time.
- One should be skeptical of whether this is a Bible contradiction given the Skeptic Annotated Bible’s track record of inaccurately handling the Bible. See the many examples of their error which we have responded to in this post: Collection of Posts Responding to Bible Contradictions. Of course that does not take away the need to respond to this claim of a contradiction, which is what the remainder of this post will do. But this observation should caution us to slow down and look more closely at the passages cited by the Skeptic Annotated Bible to see if they interpreted the passages properly to support their conclusion that it is a Bible contradiction.
- The skeptic tries to pit three passages (Matthew 26:34, Luke 22:34, John 13:38) as affirming the claim “Jesus said Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow” against Mark 14:30 as affirming “Jesus said Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow twice.”
- It is important to ask what is going on in the passages the skeptics cited to see if the passages were properly interpreted to support the skeptics’ claims.
- The three passages of Matthew 26:34, Luke 22:34 and John 13:38 does affirm the claim that “Jesus said Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow.”
- Mark 14:30 does affirm the claim “Jesus said Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow twice.”
- Even with the skeptics citing the passages correctly to support the two truth claims we still do not have a logical contradictions since the claims themselves are not mutually exclusive.
- Since the claim in Matthew 26:34, Luke 22:34 and John 13:38 does affirm the claim that “Jesus said Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow” in order for Mark 14:30 to contradict those three passages it means Mark 14:30 has to assert either “Jesus did not say Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow” or “Jesus said Peter will not deny Jesus.” But Mark 14:30 does not assert these two truth claims.
- Since the claim in But Mark 14:30 is “Jesus said Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow twice” in order for Matthew 26:34, Luke 22:34 and John 13:38 to contradict Mark 14:30 it means those three verses have to assert either “Jesus did not say Peter will deny Jesus before the cock crow twice” or “Jesus said Peter will not deny Jesus.” But the three passages does not assert these two truth claims.
- The thing that seems to make the skeptics stuck is the cock crowing either once or twice. But this can be synthesized in a way that doesn’t have to be contradictory. The key word in these four verses is “until” and “before.” While Matthew, Luke and John didn’t specify up to two times the cock will crow, they were saying in general when the rooster crow Peter would have denied Christ. So the use of “until” and “before” should be taken as “within a rooster crow or two rooster crow.”
- I think it is possible that Jesus’ full speech to Peter might have been “Truly I say to you, that this very night, before a rooster crows ONCE OR TWICE, you yourself will deny Me three times.” Again the Gospel of Matthew, Luke and John focused on Jesus saying the cock will crow in general while Mark specified twice. But saying “once or twice” is not contradictory; it is contradictory if the statement is “only one and only twice.” But that’s not what the passages in the Gospels said.
- My example of “once or twice” is an example of how in ordinary language “one or two” is not taken as a contradiction, but are understood as a possible set of a range of numbers that is accepted or used, etc. Here’s some Biblical examples:
- Note Matthew 18:16 states “But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that on the [a]testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be confirmed.” Catch how it says “one or two” witnesses. It’s not a contradiction to say “one or two” and some would try to bring one person while another will bring two.
- In Deuteronomy 17:6, Matthew 18:20, 2 Kings 9:32 we see examples of two or three individuals mentioned and no one would take that as contradictory.
- Joshua 7:3 even mentioned that it is asked of Joshua to have two or three thousand soldiers for an attack.
- This use of numerical range of “X or Y” isn’t just in the BIble; it is in ordinary language with non-spiritual topics.
- Medically: “To capture the peak level of your blood glucose, it is best to test one to two hours after you start eating.” (Source)
- Vaccine: “Some Want 1 Shot, 2 Shots Or None At All” (Source)
- Fitness: “Most experts recommend that you aim to lose one to two pounds per week” (Source)
- Weather: “The National Weather Service in Boulder (which serves the Denver area) already has Winter Storm Watches out for the weekend with the expectancy of 1 to 2 feet in the Denver area, with more in the mountains.” (Source)
- There is no contradiction here. Seems the skeptic needs to learn of How to Handle Bible Contradictions.
- We shouldn’t miss that worldviews are at play even with the skeptic’s objection to Christianity. The worldview of the author of the Skeptic Annotated Bible actually doesn’t even allow for such a thing as the law of non-contradiction to be meaningful and intelligible. In other words for him to try to disprove the Bible by pointing out that there’s a Bible contradiction doesn’t even make sense within his own worldview. Check out our post “Skeptic Annotated Bible Author’s Self-Defeating Worldview.”
[…] Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]
Very well handled. Thanks for your patience in dealing with these alleged contradictions. Much appreciated.
Blessings.
You are right, Jim! The frequency of the crowing should be “understood as a possible set of a range of numbers that is accepted or used.” And the three Gospel writers, including the two disciples who were probably near JESUS and Peter at that time, discussed on the “general” sense/the main message and find what CHRIST said on Peter as significant. John Mark might also be in the spot or knew it from among the believers and decided to be specfic. This is an alternative take to my usual…that the skeptic, simply was just after the number of (alleged) contradictions. Blessings to you and your family!
Good take on it, I agree with your assessment. Of all the numbers type of contradictions the skeptics throw out there, many of them they are straining at gnats but this one I’ve actually wondered about myself too. Last year I didn’t get to get around to this one before Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday, so I finally got around to this one after much thoughts and reflection and look at those verses. Thanks for your comments on my blog today/tonight! And that while you are on your staycation.
Thanks, Slim!
Great work! I have read some commentators say it wasn’t an actual rooster but a changing of the guard. This claim comes from Rabbinic/Second Temple literature stating roosters were forbidden in Jerusalem. While this was in writing archaeological evidence shows chicken remains so to me this point is void.
As such, since roosters are common to Jerusalem people would be use to hearing the rooster crow at all hours of the evening and so Peter may have missed the first crow because it was a normal, ordinary sound. Peter also mentored Mark so it also makes sense why Mark would provide more details (given by Peter himself) of this event. Peter would have had more time to process everything that transpired that evening.
Thanks for your comment! I learned from your comment about the discussions of scholars about the rooster and also the right assessment of that interpretation so I’m grateful to have learned about that. Also good point about Mark having more details based upon Peter as his source, excellent point. Sister your attention to detail is excellent and encouraging! Keep em coming! Looking forward to the upcoming youth lessons for our teens and preteens to be blessed
Thank you! I was with my mentee this afternoon and I was sharing with her what I have so far for the youth and she was really encouraging in that she wish someone would have introduced her to OT background and themes when she was younger. I’m humbled and thankful for the opportunity to share!
[…] Bible Contradiction? Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]
Thanks for thoroughly refuting another one of Steve/Stephen Wells’ alleged contradictions. Once again, Wells is resorting to the false dichotomy logical fallacy. He’s like a scratched 78 LP, playing the same music fragment over and over. I’m wondering if you’ve ever heard a scratched LP play the same notes over and over?
I am embarrassed to say this: but I have no idea what a 78 LP is…what era or decade was that, is that something before Cassette but after the record player??? And did you listen the Byrd’s on them??
I had a sneaky suspicion that you weren’t familiar with 78 LP vinyl records. Yup, I bought Byrds albums in vinyl in the early 1970s. Vinyl was so bad because it scratched so easily. CDs were a huge improvement.
I am the junior VP of the worthless knowledge foundation (joking, if there was such an organization I am unaware of it and would offer my knowledge freely!) and vinyl is making a comeback with millennials. While the sales of vinyl aren’t even close to digital/downloads, their sales are higher than cds. For what it’s worth, I made my parents keep their record players and albums!!
It’s amazing to me that vinyl made a small comeback because the technology was so poor when I was a teen. I would buy a record brand new, pull it out of the sleeve, and sometimes it would be warped. Also, so easy to scratch. I think the vinyl now is thicker and more robust. The only time I listen to any music CDs now is if I’m doing a lengthy project like painting.
Have you kept you old records and record player?! Needles can be harder to find. As to cds, mine would get SO scratched it was terrible! My brother took his revenge on cds that were played too much and scratched them beyond repair. I love when they show little kids with a cassette tape and pencil and they have NO clue what to do with it!
I threw out my record player and my vinyl collection – maybe 400 albums – in the early 80s after I was saved and joined an independent fundamental Baptist where the pastor said ALL rock music was of the devil.
After I left that church, I re-bought most of my old vinyl on CD with some new stuff and probably got back up to around 400 albums. I’ve since winnowed that down to 200 because I rarely listen to them as I said and could easily get down to 100 at this point. I really disliked cassettes because of the hiss and every once in awhile the tape player would “eat” one. I was always meticulous about handling my vinyl and CDs. I removed them from the sleeves and jewel cases like a brain surgeon.
Good points, Jim. These alleged contradictions are a bit like straining gnats. I really think today’s nitpicking skeptics are like the Pharisees and scribes of Jesus’ day.
“Secular Pharisees.” The secularist influences has had on our culture can be seen in how many including Christians think there are contradictions in the Bible.
Yes He did. Tim A Blankenship
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 6:05 AM The Domain for Truth wrote:
> SLIMJIM posted: ” Today’s post will tackle another question that the > Skeptic Annotated Bible asked: “Did Jesus say before the cock crow or > before the cock crows twice?” Here are the answers which the skeptic > believes shows a Bible contradiction: Before th” >
Its astounding to see what the skeptics say against the BIble and yet the context of the Bible answers the skeptics. God is amazing
I have heard Christians raise questions about this. Thank you.
This man NEVER gets it.
Seems like he misses so often doesn’t he? I think this is the 174th alleged “Bible contradiction” that I’ve looked at where it isn’t one! And Lord willing I will write more of them each week as I see there’s a lot more badly reasoned ones by Steve Wells. This man needs our prayers, amen?
In Prayer for Steve.
I appreciate all the hard work you do solving these imaginary contradictions of a skeptic. He should find another job as he if failing this one miserably.
I agree with you that he should find another job since he failed so badly with errors in his skeptic annotated Bible. He’s like the weatherman, he still has a job after being wrong so many times but unlike the weatherman I think he’s intentionally trying to make the Bible has contradictions even when it isn’t there and he’s forcing it to be when it isn’t. Which means by his behavior we know who his boss is according to John 8:44, don’t we?
Exactly right .
Hope he will repent one day soon.
It’s laughable what the skeptics comes up with
[…] 2.) Bible Contradiction? Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]
To criticize the Bible is prideful, aligning with Satan in Genesis 3, challenging that God speaks truth in the spirit of the Serpent, “Has God said?”
[…] https://veritasdomain.wordpress.com/2021/03/11/bible-contradiction-did-jesus-say-before-the-cock-cro… […]
[…] If any skeptics is stuck thinking thee is a contradiction because the passages stats the cock crowing either once or twice see my response here: Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]
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[…] Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]
[…] Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]
Another thing we can consider is perspective: Matthew, John, and Luke write from a different perspective than Mark. Mark is writing from Peter’s perspective, and that whole situation is known to have weighed heavily on Peter’s mind. The exact details would have been transmitted far more clearly in Peter’s case. Thus, we have three people who recall that Jesus prophesied that the cock would crow after Peter denied him, and then we have Peter who remembers the exact number of times the cock will crow and the exact number of times he will deny Jesus.
[…] Did Jesus say before the cock crow or before the cock crows twice? […]