Note: We’re interrupting our regular Sunday series for this post. Please pray for Nepal and the people in light of the Earthquake.
So I posted this on our Twitter:
And I saw someone on Twitter posted a screenshot of that Tweet with the following comment:
one more.. the scavengers of tragedy.. inspired by
#NepalEarthquake
I saw someone else shared our post with the hashtag “Soulvultures” and when I looked it up I was surprised at the amount of Tweets that have been spewing against Christians who are praying for Nepal and that also prayed for the people in Nepal to see the love of God in Christ Jesus through Christian organization providing relief. I guess Christians who want to help in Nepal or are praying evangelistically for Nepal are now labeled as “Soul Vultures.”
There is a sense of irrationality with some of these tweets. One Tweet says:
#SoulVultures are dangerous than#earthquake
And then there’s this tweet:
People who convert using sword are far more honest about their motives than
#SoulVultures,who prey on people when they are most vulnerable.
With someone’s reply:
I always maintained ‘Jejus loves u’ Types are more Dangerous than ‘Kill all Kaafirs’ 😉
Really? People who are evangelistic relief workers are more dangerous than an earthquake that has killed 1500 people thus far? Or even more dangerous than Muslim extremists who want to kill all non-Muslims? Those who come with aid to help improve or save life is the equivalent or worst than guys who want to take life? You don’t have to believe in Christianity to see that these claims are outrageous.
Then there were the tweets that called for “Soul Vultures” to be damned, the Army to shoot them and also for a “Hindu Inquisition” to be implemented against them. Irrational hate for Christianity knows no bound.
I want to deal with two things in this post. First I want to clarify what is the Christian Gospel that Christians want to share with others as I see so many strawman fallacies being committed on Twitter. Secondly, I want to consider some of the objections to Christian evangelistic relief efforts in light of the different worldviews/religion and note that their own worldview provide the undercutting defeater against their objection to Christian evangelistic earthquake relief aid. I want to look at the Gospel first as it will shape how one deal with the objections in part two.
First what is the Christian Message that Christians want to be shared in Nepal?
Again, I’m abhorred at the massive amount of misunderstanding as to what the Gospel of Jesus Christ means among those who tweet against “Soul Vultures.” For the purpose of avoiding misrepresentation this is a paragraph summary of the Gospel:
The gospel or good news of Jesus Christ is that God the Father, who is holy and righteous in all his ways, is angry with sinners and will punish sin. Man, who disobeys the rule of God, is alienated from the love of God and is in danger of an eternal and agonizing condemnatin at the hands of God. But God, who is also rich in mercy, because of his great love, sent his eternal Son born by the Virgin Mary, to die as a ransom and a substitue for the sins of rebellious people. And through the perfect obedience of the Son of God and his willing death on the cross as payment for our sins, all who repent and believe in Jesus Christ, following him as Savior and Lord, will be saved from the wrath of God to come, be declared just in his sight, have eternal life, and recieve the Spirit of God as a foetaste of the glories of heaven with God himself.”
(Mark Dever, What is a Healthy Church Member?, 40-41)
Now this message will shape the way Christians share the Gospel. Christians who do share the Gospel are to do so in a loving manner motivated by the Love of God as Paul testified in 2 Corinthians 5:14-15=
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
Note here that their is no room for force, manipulation or strong arm tactics. Yet part of being loving is persuading people to be reconciled with God through Jesus Christ as verses 20-21 goes on to say=
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The sharing of the Good News to people must go around the World in light of Jesus’ command in Matthew 28:19-20. A Christian must put into practice lovingly and wisely presenting the Christian faith. Whether or not the person comes to Christ is up to them and the Lord.
Objections to sharing the Christian Message in Nepal After the Earth Quake
As noted already there is a strong resistance on Twitter against Christians helping people in need in Nepal who also have the goal of sharing the Gospel. No doubt some reading this will object that of course the above is important to the Christian; but Christians must also consider the faith of other people. And they are right. Here I am going to consider the objection to Christian sharing the Gospel in Nepal in light of other people’s faith and worldview. From my observation on Twitter I see objections coming from Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, “Christians” and various assortment that I’ll group together as “humanitarians.” I think the objection to Christians helping people in Nepal with both physical aid and the Gospel does not even make sense in light of the consideration of other propositions within their own belief systems. I will first look at the “humanitarian” objection as it overlaps with the objection of some of the other worldviews.
Humanitarians objection: “Christians who want to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ after the Earthquake are not compassionate.”
The heart of the humanitarian objection is much pragmatic: They see the need to address the practical need of the here-and-now of desperate people and not some pie-in-sky matter. I think an example of this objection can be seen from the following Tweet:
#SoulVultures pryng fr lost souls in#NepalEarthquake, no cncrn for humans pain. They fed on asian flesh nw wnt soul
Note the complaint that the Christian evangelistic relief worker has “no concern for human pain.” But does this even make sense?
First off, it doesn’t make sense to say Christian evangelistic aid workers are not compassionate and not concern for human pain. It’s the opposite. Christians are concerned for people’s pain. Not just only with the temporal pain after an earthquake but with human pain for all of eternity. The Christian relief worker is like the humanitarian: He or she sees the reality of human suffering and is moved unto action. Not just for the phenomenon of the earthquake. But also in light of the eternal reality of hell. You might assert that Christianity is not true–but please don’t make the Global statement that all Christians are not concerned and compassionate for people’s pain.
Secondly, let’s say hypothetically Christians are not concerned for human pain. From a pragmatic “here-and-now ” perspective if Christians are on the ground in Nepal with physical aid for those who are hurting wouldn’t that be a good thing? Even if the intention might not be noble among some Christian relief workers the “here-and-now” result is that Western non-government Christian charities are coming with help for Nepal. The “humanitarians” have nothing to complain about in light of their own criteria. Ironically the humanitarians who object to Christian Gospel driven relief effort is more concern about the “pie-in-sky” innner motivation of the helper rather than the “here-and-now ” result. The objection makes no sense within their own worldview.
Thirdly, if the goal really is to get physical relief for people in Nepal then opposing Christian evangelistic-minded relief goes against this very goal.
Does an Atheist Objection make sense?
Atheists don’t believe in the existence of God. As I noted earlier some atheists on Twitter have also participated in the hash tag against #SoulVulture. But does an atheist objection against evangelistic aid workers in Nepal even make sense in their own worldview?
First off, some atheist put significance in helping people suffering from the Earthquake as the basis to condemn Christian who cannot put aside the promotion of the Gospel in their relief work. They presuppose that there is such things that are more meaningful and significant than other things but ironically the atheist worldview reduces everything as meaningless and insignificant since there is no significance and meaning for anything in a world of “pitiless indifference.” Note Richard Dawkins saying that things just “is:”
In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice.
Why help people in such a universe? Helping people in this historic occassion means nothing when all of history means nothing since it “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing,” to quote Shakespeare’s MacBeth. Ultimately the atheist worldview has its own self-defeater against the significance of Earthquake relief over the propagation of the Gospel, but at the expense of reducing everything meaningless and insignificant.
Secondly, an atheist cannot assert that evangelistic relief effort is evil because within an atheist worldview there is no such thing as evil or good. Note Richard Dawkins’ famous quote:
The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
If there is no such thing as good or evil it makes no sense for them according to their own beliefs to condemn Christian relief missionary work as evil. For the atheist there is no standard of good and evil to “measure” the Christian and say they are wrong, evil, bad, etc.
Does an Hindu/Buddhist Objection make sense?
First off, for followers of Hinduism and Buddhism that believe in the doctrine of Maya, we must ask: Is it real that Christian relief workers desire to convert people in Nepal to Christ? That is, if everything is ultimately an illusion (Maya) then it is not real that Christian relief workers desire to convert people in Nepal. Or that an earthquake happened in the first place for that matter. And it is hard to make a Hindu objection to Christian doing evangelistic relief work if an Hindu or a Buddhist believes everything is an illusion since that claim itself is an illusion.
Secondly, there is a lot of objection on Twitter that Christianity is exclusive. It makes exclusivistic truth claims. An undercurrent behind this objection is that Hinduism/Buddhism is not exclusive like Christianity. And yet ironically they exclude Christianity.
Thirdly, in light of the point made above, if Hinduism/Buddhism really is not exclusive as it claims to be, then it would have to embrace Christianity as true. Thus Christians who are doing evangelistic relief work are providing spiritual truths to those who are hurting. But most Hindus/Buddhists on Twitter object to Christian presentation of the Gospel. Instead they want Christians to provide physical aid without involving the Gospel. But if Hinduism/Buddhism really is not exclusive and embrace Christianity as true, why would they reject the spiritual truths but only want physical aid? Do they want physical aide more than spiritual truths? If that is the case, isn’t this being attached to the material things with their physical desires being greater than their desire for spiritual realities? And isn’t that contrary to the ways of Buddhism and Hinduism?
Fourtly, perhaps Hindus/Buddhists object to the above and say Christianity is not true and they object to Christianity because it is not tolerant while their religions is tolerant. This does not make the problem go away. If they are truly tolerant will they tolerate Christians who come with earthquake aid who also lovingly present the Gospel and leave the decision up to the individuals?
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Thanks Vincent for boldly sharing this!
My pleasure Jim!
Reblogged this on Christian Heritage News & Commentary.
Thank you Angela for sharing this. I hope the Lord will use this to share the Gospel to Hindus who have been going wild on our Twitter and other Christians’ Twitter in addition to providing an answer and apologetics’ rebuttal from within their own worldview. I greatly appreciate you sharing this Angela.
I’m happy to share! Thanks for bringing this to our attention. 🙂
Excellent argument, my friend! I wonder if the rage really isn’t against the God all men know exists.
Indeed! I think all the rage in a confirmation of the BIblical truths in Psalms 2 and Romans 1. In particular I think of verses 22-23 of Romans 1= “22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [o]crawling creatures.” We see God’s assessment of idolatry but I think it’s interesting that verse 22 note they became fools which is quite descriptive of those who are attacking Christianity on our Twitter. Also Romans 1:28= “And just as they did not see fit [u]to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,” Such is some of the ways that Hindu trolls have been acting on Twitter which reveal their spiritual DNA. I pray the Spirit would convict them of their sins (John 16:8). And of course there is good news for those who see their sins for what it is: Jesus has come to save sinners through His death! I love Romans 5:8= “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. “
When Jesus fed people, they followed him and ‘loved’ him.
When he provided the gospel, everyone deserted except the few. Even those whom he had fed.
Folks would rather starve than knowingly feed on God’s goodness and have to give him thanks. I’d rather burn in hell than worship the God who demands my allegiance, apart from his effectual grace. I did not want to owe him anything. I wanted to be righteous on my own.
Great article for thinking. I will have my kids read it today. Thanks.
“When Jesus fed people, they followed him and ‘loved’ him. When he provided the gospel, everyone deserted except the few. Even those whom he had fed.”
You said it better than we could have said it.
Have you seen Tony Minao’s twitter? It’s on fire! I hope he sees this blog post in the midst of all the attacks as we want to be his “back up.” I have also been praying for him and others in light of Hindus who take to Twitter to attack who Christians who are praying evangelistically.
Hey Michael thank you for your comment and your re-tweet. I hope you and your kids would have great conversations from reading this later today.
Thanks for doing this. Great post!
You’re welcome EvangelZ! Thanks for manning the Twitter page and interacting with the Hindus who are interacting with us there. Let’s pray that we can articulate and defend the Gospel in a worthy manner for our Savior.
Amen, brother. Scary to see what idolatry can do as stated in Romans 1.
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
Thanks!
You’re welcome Jim!
I am a troll who uses profanity and my IP address is 110.175.231.232
Please refrain from vulgarity and blasphemy. I have taken the rare course of removing your comment because it did not even interact with the article’s content.
I am a troll who uses profanity and my IP address is 110.175.231.232
I am a troll who uses profanity and my IP address is 110.175.231.232
I am a Hindu blaspheming and cussing here and my IP is 110.175.231.232
We want Hindus who comment on this post to be respectful and not use profanity or vulgarity. Otherwise as SlimJim said we will move your comments which is rare.
We want Hindus who comment on this post to be respectful and not use profanity or vulgarity. Otherwise as SlimJim said we will move your comments which is rare. We also want you to interact with the points.
Good point especially about interaction with the content of this post.
Praise the Lord that we serve One who answers prayers and is stronger than any demonic force that goes against His Church!
Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Praying for Nepal, may God protect all the believers over there
Amen. Encouraging verses. Especially in light of all the Twitter irrational attacks
“may God protect all the believers over there”
Well said. I am getting sick of people praying for the safety of all the people over there. Just pray for the believers for God’s sake. They are going to call us soulvultures anyway. So why not give them one more reason to do so?
I know, right?
One evangelist gave me bible to read, when i was at a hospital. They always try to convert vulnerable people when they are in vulnerable situation. I started reading it for hope. Anyone with open mind can easily make out how ridiculous is the bible and its authors. You guys are so naive to trust the most stupidest holy book of all time.
I like how you didn’t answer the argument presented here in which your complaint doesn’t even make sense within your own worldview. Nice red-herring fallacy.
Very well explained. We can see how our nation and the world is becoming more and more intolerant of the Christian message while becoming more welcoming the the message of the fase religions of this fallen world. I trust we all can see what lies ahead and seek for the Lord’s intervention in all this mess. Lord bless. Thanks SJ
Indeed. May we keep on giving the Word of Life in the time we have.
Well argued case. Sadly the responses on Twitter just reflect the truth of Christ’s words that the world will hate Christians because it hates Christ!
Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately we see those responses coming in here on this wordpress post as well though it is more mild on here
Its all the same stories. Flood myth, god, godesses, angels, deamons, hell, heaven. We invented that thing 6000 years ago (and yes earth is much older than 6000 years). Why do someone from other part of the world has to believe in some fair skin guy with golden hair (Not talking about Santa Clause).
Your comment is off topic.
“Why do someone from other part of the world has to believe in some fair skin guy with golden hair “<–First off Jesus is not a fair skin guy with Golden Hair. That's not Mediterranean features. Secondly, your question of why should the Gospel go forth is explained in this post. But you did not interact with it.
It is not off topic. Everyone has a right to believe in whatever god/ goddesses they like. But believing that ONLY my god is true. and then deceiving people, not admitting inquisitions, being ignorant is what make people hate missionaries. And point was people create their gods in their own image like Thor, Zeus, Posidon, Jesus, Athena, Krishna they look like their followers. (I am trying to spread the light not lies)
1.) “It is not off topic”
Your comments are. Have you even read the post?
2.) “Everyone has a right to believe in whatever god/ goddesses they like.”
Ok.
3.) “But believing that ONLY my god is true. and then deceiving people, not admitting inquisitions, being ignorant is what make people hate missionaries.”
Ironic you are telling lies against Christianity, have an athiest worldview that allow the inquisition to not be immoral and you are making ignorant statements. Just a case in point of your ignorance, what does the Roman Catholic Inquisitions have to do with me? A case of bandwagon fallacy. And a faulty association at that.
4.) “And point was people create their gods in their own image like Thor, Zeus, Posidon, Jesus, Athena, Krishna they look like their followers.”
And thus if you atheism is true it provides the self-defeater to your criticism of “Soul Vultures” as I have made the case in this post.
I am telling you about why people hate Christain missionaries. Why do you think people hate them so much? It is because of this kind of tweets. It is OK. I don’t want to argue more. Just let people be seeker and not believer.
First they go with armies.. North america, south America, Africa, Asia, Australia. They destroy, kill and then they send people to HEAL. And blame your pain on some imaginary thing. and provide your cure for your pain as some imaginary guy. creating opportunity or waiting for opportunity.
When an army go out merely to destroy and kill it is wrong. But then in light of your atheist worldview such act is justified as explained in the post. If you comment one more time off tangent from the content of the post don’t be surprised your third comment won’t appear.
Why did you delete my comment? I can stand your irrational arguments? You cannot stand mine? I did not abuse anyone. did not use bad language.
Your comment is still here.
By the way I appreciate you not using bad language.
Ashish, your comments reveal that you have not interacted with the main points of this post. Let’s try to interact with the main points of the post so that we do not run around in circles. Also you keep committing fallacies of wrong association.
It is unfortunate people who don’t like Christians praying for the Gospel in Nepal and have taken the liberty to comment here fail to interact with our arguments of why their objection makes no sense in light of their worldview.
Ashish,
when you papa and mama ask for your help DON’T HELP THEM. Why? Because they are paying for their past action (karma). So they can live out the sufferings of this life in order that they might not be a cucumber or a rat in the next life.
If it sound stupid, it was meant to be!
Look fool, if it wasn’t for western missionaries, your widowed mother would be burned with your dead father. If it wasn’t for the western missionaries, you would have been sacrificed to Kali. Hinduism produce child sex slavery dedicating children as temple prostitutes.
Hinduism is racism. Only the whites are at the top of the caste system and the pariahs (dark skinned) at the bottom. Look at all the pariahs in the streets of Delhi unaided by the Brahmins in order not to disrupt the karma. What racism, the land filled with racists.
Pls get ur historical facts checked Drew…….. Christian missionaries did not do a thing for socio-religious development of India. It was Indians who made changes in Hindu Law. It is ok if u r uneducated but at least google the facts before making claims on public forum
Those are really interesting comments Shrey! You really have done your research about ‘god’ it seems.
What if I told you something no Christian has probably every told you? That God actually hates you more than you hate Him? Do you understand that?
You are vile to Him. As much contempt you have for Him, He despises you more, because He is perfectly Holy and infinite.
Guess what? He hated me too. I hated Him, too, like you.
But God who is rich in mercy sent His only son Jesus to die for sinners like us. He chose to pay the penalty for our sins by crushing His only son. That’s how wicked we are. Only the death of God’s son could satisfy His holy wrath.
Do not keep on hating God, Shrey. you are only storing up wrath for yourself in the day of judgement…something you are very good at doing yourself, I see! Repent and live! Turn to Christ and know His goodness and grace and trust Him instead of your own righteousness.
Thanks for reading.
Michael,
Thanks for sharing the Gospel to Shrey. She needs it. Her comments here, if it reflects her research, looks like the fulfillment of Romans 1:22. The issue of course is not intellectual but spiritual and hence repentance unto the God of the Bible through trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior is the remedy.
Shrey,
1.) “Pls get ur historical facts checked Drew…….. Christian missionaries did not do a thing for socio-religious development of India.”
Response: Are you sure you really want to say Christian missionaries did not do a thing for social development of India? Do you really want to make a universal negative assertion? Two words you need to know: William Carrey.
2.)”It was Indians who made changes in Hindu Law.”
Response: I don’t doubt there were Indians who made changes to Hindu laws but that fact is not mutually exclusive or antithetical to Drew’s claims of missionary’s contribution to social development in India.
s
3.)”It is ok if u r uneducated but at least google the facts before making claims on public forum”
Response: Ironic you said this to Drew. In light of the assertions which we answered to above, I wonder if you even at least did a google search of the relationship of Missionaries like William Carrey and their impact on social development of India. It’s somewhat embarrassing to make the claims and arguments that doesn’t necessarily follow.
Drew,
Strong rhetoric but some strong points you made here. Lord willing in a future post I will explore the points you made about reincarnation, Karma and suffering in Hindu beliefs. I think these Hindu doctrines further augment the argument in this post of how Hinduism undermine Hindu’s owncriticism against Christians evangelism.
shrey, ashish, ajee, kali, tutu and cucumber,
You are caught with your pants down. Sorry cucumber if you are a women, I assumed you are a man.
The very fact that you said the practice was stopped proved my point. Why have Sahajanand Swami the founder of the Swaminarayan sect who was influenced by the British argued against sati. Why have a liberal reformed Hindu heavily influenced by western thought changed the widows? That was the practice of the barbaric hindus, let them be …
The facts,
The Practice of Sati was first banned in Goa in 1515 by the Portuguese.
Sati was first formally banned in city of Calcutta in 1798 but did not stop many burnings.
The practice was formally banned in 1829 in all the lands under Bengal Presidency by Lord William Bentinck.
As you can see cucumber, it was William Carey who argued in London for the ban of sati that the British leaders enforced in India.
By the way, are you a pariah or a brahmin?
Drew,
So much for Shrey saying you are “uneducated!” You have “fact-checked” and burned down her erroneous claim that “Christian missionaries did not do a thing.” I wonder what she as a Hindu woman would think of the doctrine of Sati.
I personally feel the venom that you guys faced is totally acceptable. Why is it that you would try to recruit a grieving soul to your army of slaves. Christianity indeed was blessing for south americas, I would challange you to spread the word of “god” to middle east first, to saudi arabia, to syria, where business is conducted by an AK 47 , not with bread and hungry stomachs. It is sickening that someone would push their own unholy agenda in this hour of crisis.
P.S i dont recollect jesus sayong that build me a multi-million dollar pyramid scheme(church) and get me as many people as possib’e
Martin Baker,
1.) “I personally feel the venom that you guys faced is totally acceptable.”
That’s unfortunate.
2.) “Why is it that you would try to recruit a grieving soul to your army of slaves.”
Straw man fallacy.
3.)” I would challange you to spread the word of “god” to middle east first, to saudi arabia, to syria, where business is conducted by an AK 47 , not with bread and hungry stomachs.”
There are Christian missionaries who do minister in the Middle East and in those area. I think google should suffice. But why Middle East first?
4.)”It is sickening that someone would push their own unholy agenda in this hour of crisis.”
Unholy according to which worldview? Is it unholy to your god or gods?
5.)”i dont recollect jesus sayong that build me a multi-million dollar pyramid scheme(church) and get me as many people as possib’e”
I don’t either. A strawman fallacy.
DearSlimjim, i have read entire bible, nowhere is it written that good deeds of a person are solely lined to religious motivation. Infact, of your good deeds of helping out people of nepal just so that they can be recruited in to the belief of jesus christ, is very much against the teaching of christanity. Roman catholics believe that christ was the ultimate truth, even then we find that today there are so many branches of christianity. Followers pf christ are themselves not sure what a good christian is, still they have arrogance to think that “pagans” are backward and need redeeming. Slimjim, Hinduism is broad enough to accept that Jesus christ “Might” be saint to his flock, but is christianity mature enough to go beyond kts own myopic view that Christ is the “Only” saint? Isnt it arrogant to think, to declare; to predict that actions of god almighty?
just food for thought.
My friend Martin Baker,
6.) ” Infact, of your good deeds of helping out people of nepal just so that they can be recruited in to the belief of jesus christ, is very much against the teaching of christanity.”
Any chapter and verses from the Bible?
7.) “Roman catholics believe that christ was the ultimate truth, even then we find that today there are so many branches of christianity.”
Logical fallacy: Just because there are many does that mean there is not one that is true?
8.)” Followers pf christ are themselves not sure what a good christian is, still they have arrogance to think that “pagans” are backward and need redeeming.”
Followers of Christ can be arrogant. That needs repentance. But I don’t think believing people need to be redeemed by Christ on the cross is arrogance towards what you called “pagans.” Non-pagans need redemption too. I myself a sinner am also in need of God’s saving grace. Martin, I hope even in our disagreement you would know that I don’t think of myself as any better in my own merit than what someone might call “backward.”
9.) “Slimjim, Hinduism is broad enough to accept that Jesus christ “Might” be saint to his flock, but is christianity mature enough to go beyond kts own myopic view that Christ is the “Only” saint?”
I don’t think Hinduism has accepted Christianity because its claims are antithetical. I don’t think Hinduism as a teaching embodies as much acceptance as you think (read my post). Nor do I think relativism is a mark of maturity because of its philosphical problems that undermine the very basis for your discussion; if everything is relative then everything you said is mere preferences and nothing more.
10.) “Isnt it arrogant to think, to declare; to predict that actions of god almighty?”
If it is presumptuous, yes. But if God has revealed Himself in His Scripture, that’s another manner. I sincerely have no desire to predict things that will get me in trouble with God.
[…] my post on Sunday “Twitter attack on #SoulVultures and the Nepalese Earthquake,” I noted that there are Hindus and others on Twitter harassing those Christians who […]
Indeed the blogger is a mad guy who is supporting forced coversions through lies. Christians like u must not be allowed to enter any non-Christian country. You only spread hatred and create disturbance. Stay with ur faith & let us stay with ours. We dont need the lies of Christianity the fake Jesus story
Shrey,
Have you realized you didn’t engage the arguments in our blog post? Straight up red herring fallacy.
1.) “Indeed the blogger is a mad guy who is supporting forced coversions through lies.”
Response: This itself is a lie. Where were we advocating forced conversions? Don’t just assert it, document it. If you read this post you would see I do not advocate force conversion. On the contrary. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
2.) “Christians like u must not be allowed to enter any non-Christian country.”
Response: It would probably surprise you to know that I live in a non-Christian country and in a heavily non-Christianized part of the country. I love how earlier you accused me of advocating “force” conversion with the assumption force is wrong but now you want us to never set foot in a non-Christian country; I wonder if you would want us to be forced out of our homes in order not to be in a non-Christian country? For the record, I would never advocate Hindus to be forced out of “Christian country” (whatever that means). Tolerance is an important virtue you need to learn. Shame one you. You need to repent to God of your bigoted ways.
3.) “You only spread hatred and create disturbance.”
Response: Are you describing us or yourself? Isn’t ironic you took the time to search for us, came here to our own blog to spread your comments lying about us and our character, causing a disturbance from the immediate subject at hand in this post and throw out arguments that doesn’t follow, commit logical fallacies and self-contradictions which in all indication you probably are falling into these irrational comments because you probably are driven by hate? You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
4.) “Stay with ur faith & let us stay with ours. We dont need the lies of Christianity the fake Jesus story”
Response: Can you as a Hindu be consistent with your own beliefs and tell Christians not to evangelize? Or does your larger web of beliefs as a Hindu undermine the intelligibility and meaningfulness for you to criticize Christian evangelism? I don’t know if you read this post that you commented on. I don’t think you can criticize Christian evangelism consistently within your own religion. I want to note again that you failed to dealt with the arguments marshaled forth here. Remember that any troll could conduct drive by and spread lies.
Very helpful post. I wondered why I was getting so many offensive tweets after posting about the earthquake.
Your welcome Rob. I appreciate you also sharing this post on your Twitter account. There was a lot of hateful lies spread by many Hindus using that hash tag. Of course Jesus has identified the spiritual DNA of those that use that kind of tactics in John 8:44. By the way do you run that UK website?
Hi, Yes I run theologyontheweb.org.uk and its related sites. I worked in Nepal with the United Mission to Nepal about 27 years ago now. I was there when the last earthquake took place in 1988.
Wow! Praise God for all your work Rob. I’m praying for your continual ministry, that by God’s grace you see fruit.
[…] Twitter Attack on #SoulVultures and the Nepalese Earthquake– There has been a lot of pushback against Christians who have stated that Nepal needs the Gospel. It’s not as if Christians are not sending aid, but some people have incredibly and viciously attacked Christians for, well, being Christians. Here’s an insightful post on this. The site also has several more posts on the same topic. […]
Thanks for sharing our post JW!
Jim. I agree that the twitter attack on Christians is unpredecented and overreacting. But consider is.
(Just bear with me) Say Christianity is false. Then basically what the evangelists are doing is nothing more than emotional manipulation. They are exploiting the grief and loss faced by the victims of this terrible earthquake to further their dominion over the minds of many. Helping victims in the earthquake becomes a means to an end, not an end in itself. To further their agenda and increase their own chance of entering an imaginary .
It is the emotional manipulation that I feel needs to be addressed. For all religions (Christianity included) can be used to exert control. Then again I ll grant you that if Christianity is true, then such acts are justified, but from the POV of others who believe it not, see the above paragraph.
You are right in saying that the central theme of Hinduism and Buddhism are incompatible with Christianity. But this misses another point. There are degrees of right and wrong. Wherelse Hinduism and Buddhism can tolerate Christianity, the converse cannot be said of Christianity to the former.
Let me explain with this example. A Buddhist that sees a Christian do good deeds would say “he is partially enlightened like a Bodhisattva. He has found his path” since he thinks that the Christian may be wrong in the Heaven-Hell thing, but he is very right in doing good deeds (expiating karma). But a Christian who sees a Buddhist do the same would say “he is good in our standards, but in God’s eyes his works are like filthy rags. He follows a false religion. We must deconvert him.”
And to put it rather bluntly, you have a very superficial understanding of Maya. I felt the need to rebuke you on your blithe dismissal, but then I decided this is not the place or time.
By your worldview, wouldnt it mean that a giant sinkhole to Hell just opened beneath nepal and sucked thousands of Hindus and Buddhists into it?
Not trying to sound offensive but the thought just seems a tad bit disturbing.
Sorry if any bit sounded offensive.
Sincerely,
A Buddhist.
Darren,
1.) “I agree that the twitter attack on Christians is unpredecented and overreacting”
Response: I’m pleasantly surprised you made this observation.
2.) “Say Christianity is false. Then basically what the evangelists are doing is nothing more than emotional manipulation. They are exploiting the grief and loss faced by the victims of this terrible earthquake to further their dominion over the minds of many.”
Response: First off, I don’t know if the Goal of an evangelistic Christian is to have “dominion” over the minds of many. Secondly, I wonder if anyone of any faith can really have that kind of control over people’s mind where one can say someone else have “dominion” over it, I have a hard time seeing the possibility of someone taking over as “dominion” over some other person’s mind, Christian or non-Christian. A husband doesn’t even have that kind of control over his wife. Thirdly, for the purpose of clarity, I think the verb “manipulation” carries with it certain connotation. When you mentioned it, did you mean to imply that evangelistic Christian wishes to change people’s mind through underhanded, deceptive, or even abusive tactics? If so, what are those tactics specifically? I ask Darren because I think once we get more concrete in spelling out what that means, a lot of slogans being thrown around surrounding the #Soulvultures debate loses a lot of steam. Fourthly, i also disagree that just because someone sees Christianity is false that therefore one must interpret the Christian evangelistic relief endeavor as “emotional manipulation.”. For the sake of the argument if Christianity is false this does not logically rule out the interpretation that Christian evangelistic relief effort is done by sincere people whose intention of providing physical aid to people of all stripes is driven by their view that lives are precious. Don’t forget that in Christian theology all people are precious since they are made in the image of God.
3.) “Helping victims in the earthquake becomes a means to an end, not an end in itself.”
Response: First off, for the sake of the argument, if this is so, what is wrong with that? If the Christians from the West can be mobilized with their relative prosperity to give to charity to help Nepal, wouldn’t that additional aid be welcomed? Building up from the first point my second point is this: Must we have a litmus test of knowing everyone’s intention before we decide to recieve or reject aid? It’s not easy to know everyone’s intention. Furthermore if the physical/medical aid are not welcomed from these evangelistic Christians, isn’t that undermining the very end of helping the victims in the first place? Ironically, in this scenario isn’t one guilty of the same agenda being above the victims need that one also charge against the #Soulvultures? As I argued in the above post, if helping victims of the quake truly is the end, then why are you arguing about the means that some in their culture and within their internal thought process help motivate them to help victims of the quake? Isn’t it about the end as your statement suggests? Also, I must also add that Christian relief effort isn’t only premised on an evangelistic motivation. In what follows I am writing a bit more details in order to provide to you a more nuance view of Christian theology that drives relief effort since I believe that the desire to help the victims for the sake of the victims exists in Christian theology, along with other compatible motivations. Christians believe everyone is precious, made in the image of God. Therefore, if someone is in need there is ground within Christian theology to help people who are victims in of itself as the end. By the way, to share the Good news about Jesus Christ is driven in part by that same motivation. But this is not in conflict with evangelism as noted earlier that the care of people drives both. Furthermore, we can see in a nuance Christian theology the distinction is possible of helping an earthquake victim with their physical need is a good end in of itself with the following scenario: If the government of a state with a predominately Christian population were to help in Nepal without evangelism, Christian theology would say that’s a good thing because the people in Nepal are people who’s lives matter! In my Christian theology, the government’s role is not to evangelize and the government’s assistance without evangelism won’t be something wrong, because that’s not the state role. I would be a happy tax payer to my government in this scenario!
4.) ” To further their agenda and increase their own chance of entering an imaginary.”
Response: First off, did you mean to say “imaginary heaven?” and forgot to write “heaven”? Second, is the evangelistic Christian’s motivation to help those in Nepal in order to enter in heaven? I think you would be mistaken here as doing good works to enter to heaven is foreign to Biblical Christian theology. I will be doing a post sometime in the next few days answering this point made by others about selfishness, salvation (heaven, etc) and criticisms of the inner motivation of the so called “#Soulvultures.” My other criticism of your statements above in point 3 also applies here as well.
5.) “It is the emotional manipulation that I feel needs to be addressed. For all religions (Christianity included) can be used to exert control. Then again I ll grant you that if Christianity is true, then such acts are justified, but from the POV of others who believe it not, see the above paragraph.”
Response: Thank you for thinking through the Christian POV. I do have a hard time though if someone were to say biblical authenic Christianity is being used to exert control of people by those propagating the message of Jesus Christ. I think the doctrines of Christianity often subvert those in history who have used it to try to control people. I think of the example of African Americans who were taught Christianity as slaves, only to have the Biblical motifs of freedom from slavery in the Exodus account undermine the very agendas some slavemasters might have. I think of the teachings of the role of individual conscience and liberties in the Bible as also undermining any effort to “control” others using genuine Christianity. The flourishing of Biblical Christianity would undermine the very philosophical effort in justifying oppression.
6.) “You are right in saying that the central theme of Hinduism and Buddhism are incompatible with Christianity. But this misses another point. There are degrees of right and wrong. Wherelse Hinduism and Buddhism can tolerate Christianity, the converse cannot be said of Christianity to the former.”
Response: I don’t know if I missed the point as my post didn’t make a mere observation of the incompatibility of Christianity. I argued the point that a consistent Hindu or Buddhist have no grounds to attack Christian evangelistic relief efforts since they are suppose to tolerate Christianity.
7.) “Let me explain with this example. A Buddhist that sees a Christian do good deeds would say “he is partially enlightened like a Bodhisattva. He has found his path” since he thinks that the Christian may be wrong in the Heaven-Hell thing, but he is very right in doing good deeds (expiating karma).”
Response: And so a consistent Buddhist would not be attacking the Christian organizations who do provide physical reliefs. That’s the purpose of this posts to take out the force those who spent their time attacking Christians on twitter utilizing their own worldviews.
8.) “And to put it rather bluntly, you have a very superficial understanding of Maya. I felt the need to rebuke you on your blithe dismissal, but then I decided this is not the place or time.”
Response: That is fine. If you do respond to my comment but find you want to have me informed about Maya without you spelling it out yourself for whatever the reason, you can also share with me any link you feel is helpful. I ask because I don’t want to give a bad argument against Buddhism if I’m misinformed.
9.) “By your worldview, wouldnt it mean that a giant sinkhole to Hell just opened beneath nepal and sucked thousands of Hindus and Buddhists into it? Not trying to sound offensive but the thought just seems a tad bit disturbing.”
Response: The fact that anyone (Nepal or elsewhere, including the West) even lived this long is by God’s mercy. We don’t even deserve another second. He gives life, and he takes it. It’s His prerogative.
10.) “Sorry if any bit sounded offensive.”
Response: I’m not offended in any way. Actually I appreciated your comment as it stands out among those on here criticizing this post. I hope if you are offended it was not something with me and my conduct. And if anything were to offend you (which I do not wish by the way), I hope it is the content of Christian theology from the Bible that I believe is the truth and not because I got in the way of interfering with my own offensiveness.
Its completely the rebellion against the Living God. Everything they do is to rebel against the Lord God. Satan was the first rebel and now here are all these people rebellious just like Satan.
Without any reason they grow up with such an intense hatred against Christ, the creator and his followers.
Born with hatred n rebellion.
But know all of you consumed by your hatred, your creator still awaits for you to repent and come to his house than going to the hell.
Amen Persis.
When you said “But know all of you consumed by your hatred, your creator still awaits for you to repent and come to his house than going to the hell” it made me think of Romans 5:8= “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
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