There’s a lot of bad arguments against the Trinity, more than I have time to fully respond to. In one of the comments in my previous post “Argument against the Trinity? Jose Ventilacion on the death of Christ” there was a comment from “Alfeo piedad” that tried to argue against the Trinity:
If the trinity is true , it should have been complete from the beginning.”
I want to reply concerning the methodology behind the objection. This objection sets up an artificial standard of proof against the Trinity in that the Trinity can only be true if the Bible has taught it completely from “the beginning.” Here’s my reply:
- First off logically speaking whether a doctrine was taught from “the beginning” of the Bible or not is irrelevant whether or not it is true.
- If a doctrine is taught in the middle of the Bible does it make it less true? Of course not because the Bible still teaches that doctrine.
- If a doctrine is taught towards the second half of the Bible does it make it less true? Again, of course not.
- Even if a doctrine is taught on the last page and the last paragraph of the Bible it does not make it less true. Again where the doctrine is situated in the page order of the Bible does not make it lose its status of being true or false or less true or more false, etc.
- Secondly a methodology or argument against the Trinity or any other doctrine with the requirement that “it should have been complete from the beginning” goes against the Bible itself with how the Bible unfolds truths through progressive revelation. Since the doctrine of progressive revelation is true our friend’s objection against the Trinity should be rejected since it assumes a methodology that goes against the way Scripture works.
- By progressive revelation I mean that the truth about God and His overall plan was revealed in the Bible over time, stretching different eras of redemptive history where further revelation adds clarity, additional information or explanation of what was given before. Thus, what came before often comes as “incipient” form that is fleshed out later in the Bible.
- Progressive revelation is a Biblical doctrine. Note 1 Peter 1:10-12= “As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.”
- Here we see that Old Testament prophets knew less than those who live during the era of New Testament revelation. Specifically what the Old Testament prophets did not know but New Testament saints with further revelation knew were:
- “what person…the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow” (v.11)
- “what…time…the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow” (v.11)
- What is fascinating about verse 12 is that it shows progressive revelation was a reality for how angels read the Bible and when they only had Old Testament prophetic revelation they longed to see further and progressive revelation.
- Here we see that Old Testament prophets knew less than those who live during the era of New Testament revelation. Specifically what the Old Testament prophets did not know but New Testament saints with further revelation knew were:
- Again progressive revelation is a Biblical doctrine. Note the many instances in which the Bible uses the term “mystery” in the context of something that was not revealed beforehand but revealed at a later time in the Bible:
- “Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested,” (Romans 16:24-25a)
- “To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; ” (Ephesians 3:8-9)
- “Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints” (Colossians 1:25-26)
- Again this objection against the Trinity that it must be completely stated in the beginning makes little sense in light of how the Bible reveals truths progressively.
- Thirdly we see examples of how other true doctrines were also revealed progressively in the Bible and not “complete from the beginning.”
- We noted earlier above 1 Peter 1:10-12 that the actual referent of the Messiah was not revealed completely from the beginning.
- We noted earlier the doctrine of salvation of the Gentile was also progressively revealed even though at one point it was a mystery and hidden.
- The doctrine of the church as a multi-ethnic people group of believers is only found in New Testament fully revealed.
- Even the doctrine of Grace was not revealed completely from the beginning.
- Check out Lectures and Outlines: Grace of God and Common Grace.
- From the link you will see that a study that takes the approach of biblical theology reveals that the doctrine of God’s grace wasn’t completely and fully declared in the Old Testament but rather it was unfolded through redemptive history and climaxing in the New Testament.
- Unlike the Old Testament note how the New Testament completes the Bible’s teaching of grace for the area of sanctification and for individual ministry.
- Unlike the Old Testament note how the New Testament teaches the inter-relationship of common grace and special grace.
- Fourthly the methodology espoused by the objection is also self-refuting for the followers of Iglesia Ni Cristo as there are doctrines that INC subscribe to that wasn’t taught completely in the beginning either.
- INC teaches the claim that Martin Luther was the second angel of Revelation 14:8. But this interpretation was not found in “the beginning” of the Bible or the early church.
- INC teaches that Felix Y Manalo is the bird of prey in Isaiah 46:11 but this interpretation does not past the litmus test of being complete in connecting the thoughts all the way to Manlo nor was this interpretation found from the beginning.
- Finally if we reject the objection and its problematic methodology we must prove the Trinity within the Bible’s own term.
- Again the issue is not whether every part of the definition of the Trinity should be found all one place or in the beginning of the Bible. If each of the elements of the definition is taught throughout the Bible it logically necessitate that the Trinity is true.
- For a logical presentation of the Bible’s statement on the Trinity check out Seventeen Sessions on the Trinity! Audios and Notes.
To intellectually “get” to the Trinity is to know the Holy Spirit. The classic works of John Owen and Abraham Kuyper’s book, THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (both are free pdf’s online) in my humble opinion, is a good place to start. Experientially, there is no doubt for anyone who has ever had the power of the indwelled Holy Spirit work miracles in their life. A man can accomplish nothing of God’s will without the Holy Spirit, which is precisely why He was sent as the Comforter by the Father through Christ Jesus. Amen.
Amen. I have yet to read Kuyper’s work on the Holy Spirit. Just a question for clarity, would you say to intellectually “get” the Spirit also involves knowing the Son personally, given that Jesus Himself said eternal life is to know HIm, and if you know Jesus we also know the Father in Him? Thanks for dropping by my friend!
That’s a very good, but complex question. Just when I think I can offer a decent response, I find that I can’t. Here is the pdf link to Kuyper’s book (it’s a large file for a pdf – around 43 mb, I think. It’s scanned.) I will pray on your question because I too would like clarity.
Click to access workofholyspirit00kuyp.pdf
The doctrine of the Trinity may not have been taught from the beginning of the Bible but it was implied. Genesis 1:26 says, Then God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Amen Clyde. Even as early as Genesis 1 we see the multi-persons within the Godhead that lays the foundation for the Trinity…good point Clyde, this adds to everything stated in this post.
[…] via Argument Against the Trinity? It should have been completely taught from the beginning of the Bible … […]
The Bible itself was not complete from the beginning. The resurrection of Christ probably happened in 34 AD, and the first book of the New Testament, 1 Thessalonians, was not written until 51 AD. What this means is that there were Christians without the Bible. The Bible is not the only source of revelation.
It’s amazing that after 2000 years we still have to defend the Trinity.
Exactly Tom and sometimes we see the argument against the Trinity are the same one or similar ones that keeps on popping up. It goes to show the Bible is true when it says there is nothing new under the sun doesn’t it? Now that I think about it I think it also similar to the attack against God’s saving grace being alone, apart from works, and also the doctrines of the Bible’s authority, etc. Even the doctrines propped up against those Biblical truths (such as the Pope, etc) are the same arguments that have been refuted already…
Yes, the debate over grace vs. works still rages although the evil one is successfully muddying the waters. When I read the account of Cain and Abel in Genesis 4 for the first time as a believer and saw why God accepted Abel’s animal sacrifice, which foreshadowed Christ, but rejected Cain’s sacrifice of his own works, I wanted to run through the streets, shouting I get it, I get it!!! May we always remember the awe and gratefulness we had when the Lord first opened our eyes!
Part of the reason it still has to be defended is because people who believe in Sola Scriptura don’t see the word “Trinity” in the Bible.
To add to your “Progressive Revelation,” we see this with Peter when he said, “This is that which was spoken by Joel….” The Trinity is all through the Old Testament.
I agree Patrick I do think we can see the Trinity in the Old Testament; it is there. By the time we get to the New Testament it is much more explicit.
Jim, thank you for this post. I hesitate to enter into this conversation, but just want to add a comment about your interchange with Theophilus on the subject of The Holy Spirit. Twenty-five years ago I studied and taught women on this subject. It has taken all this time, believing the power of the Holy Spirit that indwells the believer is the Spirit of Christ to understand the supernatural working in the human spirit to produce God’s desired effect; that is, the life of Christ in the believer. (Romans 8:15-16; Galatians 4:6; there are many more references)
I did a series on my blog How the Holy Spirit Works. I am continually studying and have almost finished The Power of the Holy Spirit by William Law. Andrew Murray quotes him and writes the introduction to this book. He explains that although William Law stands at extremes with reformed theology (he omits part of the book that speaks against Calvin) he found this to be the best source on the subject. I agree. Unlike Kuiper’s work, it is easier to stay focused on every word and thought. I found the language structure easy to follow, and was not only confirmed in my former understanding, but was blessed in my heart and spirit to believe that he had a special leading to write this book. Here is the link to the Kindle version. $.99 and well worth the time to read. Blessings. Fran https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NCLU0TE/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title
Wow thank you
Wow thank you for sharing that book sister
You are welcome. Hope you have time to read and let me know what you think.
Thank you too Fran — for another book recommendation on the Holy Spirit!
Slim Jim….I wanted to make mention of this and why your question is difficult for me to answer: The Holy Spirit worked in my life before I understood and fully appreciated what the atoning sacrifice of Christ meant for me personally. The Holy Spirit directed me to Christ at a cross-road where I had to make a definite choice before I had any intellectual understanding of what that choice really meant: death or eternal life. All I knew at the moment was that it was a most serious decision. For anyone else looking at it with secular eyes from the outside, it would be considered a most mundane, everyday and insignificant choice.
Here is all I could articulate about the choice at the time: It would not be good for my soul. That was my only understanding of it before I knew of Christ. Once the choice was made, what moved me to start watching Derek Prince videos? I have no idea! Then I began reading the bible, then slowly over many months started to recognize what had happened to me. My life literally changed BEFORE I personally knew Christ and BEFORE I was saved.
Now looking back, I have no doubt that it was the rubicon of salvation for me: now or never. Before the “choice”, so many truly unbelievable circumstances and events forever changed the trajectory of my worldly existence in such a short span of time. It was almost as if there was not much time left for me to be saved, They had to move my program along and in strange ways — to get me to that wonderfully mundane choice, lickety-split.
So I felt the full power of the in-dwelled Holy Spirit then, again when I asked Christ to be Lord of my life, before I was baptized, and again at baptism, which for me was a full immersion baptism in Lake Michigan by a lovely Pentacostal pastor and his family. The Pentacostals know how to baptize! I know the voice and the work of the Holy Spirit in my life. I know my Father, my Creator through all of my senses and my very being. I know Christ through His sacrifice that has delivered me from the penalty of sin and through the inerrant, inspired Word of God. But I did not know Christ personally before I had knowledge and experiential grace through the Holy Spirit…if that makes sense.
Grace worked in my life before I had any faith at all. It was a gift from God and of Christ, the good Shepard who does not lose even one of His stray sheep.
Amen.
The book recommended by Fran is also in the public domain: Here it is as a pdf….http://lovestthoume.com/PDF-Files/ThePowerOfTheSpirit-Law.pdf
Amen!
[…] Argument Against the Trinity? It should have been completely taught from the beginning of the Bible […]
This was a rigorous rebuttal. Much obliged for you sharing this on Facebook.
Reblogged this on RG's 2 Cents Studios and commented:
Seems to me that if they (arguers against The Trinity) used the same logic in reference to mathematics, they would have to conclude that advanced calculus couldn’t be true because it isn’t explained on the first page of first grader’s math books.
A strong logical response.
[…] Argument Against the Trinity? It should have been completely taught from the beginning of the Bible […]
I regret I didn’t read this earlier before a conversation I had with the Jehovah’s Witnesses prowling in my Kansas neighborhood
From the WCF
CHAPTER 2
Of God, and of the Holy Trinity
1. There is but one only,[25] living, and true God,[26] who is infinite in being and perfection,[27] a most pure spirit,[28] invisible,[29] without body, parts,[30] or passions;[31] immutable,[32] immense,[33] eternal,[34] incomprehensible,[35] almighty,[36] most wise,[37] most holy,[38] most free,[39] most absolute;[40] working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will,[41] for his own glory;[42] most loving,[43] gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;[44] the rewarder of them that diligently seek him;[45] and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments,[46] hating all sin,[47] and who will by no means clear the guilty.[48]
2. God hath all life,[49] glory,[50] goodness,[51] blessedness,[52] in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made,[53] nor deriving any glory from them,[54] but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things;[55] and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever himself pleaseth.[56] In his sight all things are open and manifest,[57] his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,[58] so as nothing is to him contingent, or uncertain.[59] He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands.[60] To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.[61]
3. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost:[62] the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father;[63] the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.[64]
I use to be on Twitter but glad you are now on Gab where I can still follow your posts several times a day
The Trinity being historically taught is important but the cultist is over stating his case. I’m assuming he’s doesn’t know there is embryonic form of Trinitarian teaching in Genesis?
The New Testament does not present the doctrine of the Trinity, including the doctrine of the deity of Christ, as though it meant the introduction of a new idea of God. On the contrary, it presents it as being a revelation of the same God as the God who had revealed himself to Israel in Old Testament times. . . The Jehovah of the Old Testament is presented in the New Testament as being a triune God; but he is the same God throughout both the Old Testament and the New.
-The Person of Jesus, 33
The Trinity is in the Word! I will glorify our Triune God everyday until I take my last breath or I’m raptured 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻❤️